Designing Mexico for Civ VII

[jsciv69]

MEXICO
Let us put on our Sombrero and construct a Mexican Civ OLE. Land of the Comanchero and the Mariachi.

Leader: Benito Juarez
When we think of Cinco De Mayo think of Benito Juarez. On that day Juarez along with Ignacio Zaragoza led a force of about 2,000 fighters to defeat a French force at the Battle of Puebla. Juarez was President from 1858-1871. As President, Juarez sought land reforms in favor of the people. He favored a better education system. He championed the causes of the Native tribes. As Juarez himself was of Native blood. Benito Juarez is revered as a legend and liberator still to this day.

Unique Units: Line Cavalry, Comancheros, Mounted Gendarmeri, Guardia Rural

Special Buildings: National Autonomous University,

 

[Lonecat Nekophrodite]

Pick up underlying theme first
What do you want to present Mexico?
A: A proud, sublime nation with strong European military tradition, anyone into Gen. Santa Ana can lead... Note that under this era, Mexico had every unit premier European empires have (Fusiliers, Grenadiers (Ones that assaulted Alamo), Cuirassiers, Lancers (Including Californio) both of which had a chance fighting lighter US Army Cavalry (modelled after British Light Dragoons and no Heavy Cavalry traditions AT ALL), some said the US Army had to use Horse Artillery because of Mexican Cuirassiers did beat lighter American Yellowlegs.
UU: Californio (Superior lancer cavalry stronger against enemy mounted troops of any kind).
B: Wildwest 'Outlaw nation'. Beginning with Ben Juarez. either a kind of Ranger replacements or gunslinging 'cavalry' unit that earns more when plundering enemy land trade routes
Unique Infrastructure: Rancho National (Can be either Encampment or Fort), actually inherited from Spanish Presidio which they too built ones in Italy as well as elsewhere outside Europe.

EDIT: I've forgot about Soldado de Cuercas used in the latter days of Spanish Rule, which were very active in Mexico including what's now the Southwests of the US of A. A kind of lancer with Adraga shield (designs inherited from Morrocans during their occupations of what's now Spain), a lance, broadswords, and firearms. they were less shooty however because of logistics problems.

 

[Krajzen]

I'd make Mexico cultural, the country is very culturally recognizable across the world, easily beating everyone in Americas but US. It had like 7th largest number of foreign tourists before the
pandemic, of all countries in the world. In Eastern Europe it is that one Latin American country people wanna visit, recognize, can state some stuff beyond stereotypes etc. Everyone likes Mexico, except some of neighbors
From my vague reading I'd say cultural richess is particuarly great.
I say particulary because I don't think that of every country

 

[Zaarin]

I rather like the design of the Mexica in Civ6 and would more or less keep it for Civ7: designed for big empires based on acquired luxuries with the captured workers and rushed districts obliquely hinting at slavery and human sacrifice without being too on the nose. However, I'd change some of the details: replace the ubiquitous Monty with Axayacatl or Ahuitzotl, replace the Eagle Knight with Jaguar Knight, and replace the Ball Court (leave that for the Maya) with the Chinamitl (Chinampa).

Oh, Mexico? No, I don't want Mexico in the game.

 

[Xandinho]

If they go to Mexico in Civ7 as a Latin Spanish representation, I think a cultural/agrarian civ would make sense to them. I agree that Mexican culture is quite remarkable, they should interact with something like festivals, I just wish dances and festivals were something in Civ, and that music played a more important role in the game than just great works and those Rock bands. Given that Mexico is a very dense country demographically, especially in its central region, I think a compact civ bonus would make sense for them as well. In short, they should play tall, compact and cultural, imo.

 

[BuchiTaton]

Leader: Benito Juarez
When we think of Cinco De Mayo think of Benito Juárez. On that day Juarez along with Ignacio Zaragoza led a force of about 2,000 fighters to defeat a French force at the Battle of Puebla. Juarez was President from 1858-1871. As President, Juarez sought land reforms in favor of the people. He favored a better education system. He championed the causes of the Native tribes. As Juarez himself was of Native blood. Benito Juarez is revered as a legend and liberator still to this day.

Agree about Benito Juárez as the best option to lead México, but must point that he was the president of México during the Battle of Puebla Puebla de los Ángeles but he not led the battle, at the time he was in México City. The other future mexican president that was commanding th Battle of Puebla was the general Porfirio Díaz.

Juárez was Zapotec, an he cared about native people but in a very 19th century Liberal way, that include the Leyes de Reforma, that included the separation of church and state, laic universal and free education, but also the confiscation of "idle land" uin hands of the church and the native communities. This last with the idea of sell the land to more productive private owners (included foreign investors), resulting on most native towns losing their traditional communal way of manage and own their land (recognized by the colonial goverment) turning them to dependence to work for the great private land owners (hacendados), more poverty and migration to the cities.
Ironically Emiliano Zapata another of the great heroes of mexican history was fighting to revert that disparity and get back the land of the natives to form again the communal Ejidos.

Unique Units: Line Cavalry, Comancheros, Mounted Gendarmeri, Guardia Rural

Special Buildings: National Autonomous University,

In terms of pick an unique and interesting option Humankind did good job with the Soldadera, still I found awkward this because they are from a civil war.
For a more elite mexican unit the Lanceros de Jalisco would be the best option.

The UNAM is more wonder material, better options for UB are the Lienzo Charro and the Capilla Abierta.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

If they go to Mexico in Civ7 as a Latin Spanish representation, I think a cultural/agrarian civ would make sense to them. I agree that Mexican culture is quite remarkable, they should interact with something like festivals, I just wish dances and festivals were something in Civ, and that music played a more important role in the game than just great works and those Rock bands.

I'd personally like this design too, though technically for Argentina.

But I wouldn't complain if it was Mexico, as long as they don't sacrifice the Aztecs or Maya for them, which I doubt they would.

Anyway for Mexico I expect them to get a Hacienda improvement, similar to what Gran Colombia has. As for the UU I don't know. A cavalry replacement seems likely but could always go for something non mounted to differentiate them from Gran Colombia. Soldaderas are interesting, only because they might end up being Civ's first all female unit.

Also I know that he never officially lead but would Father Miguel Hidalgo work as a leader as well as the Father of the Nation?

 

[jsciv69]

Agree about Benito Juárez as the best option to lead México, but must point that he was the president of México during the Battle of Puebla Puebla de los Ángeles but he not led the battle, at the time he was in México City. The other future mexican president that was commanding th Battle of Puebla was the general Porfirio Díaz.

Juárez was Zapotec, an he cared about native people but in a very 19th century Liberal way, that include the Leyes de Reforma, that included the separation of church and state, laic universal and free education, but also the confiscation of "idle land" uin hands of the church and the native communities. This last with the idea of sell the land to more productive private owners (included foreign investors), resulting on most native towns losing their traditional communal way of manage and own their land (recognized by the colonial goverment) turning them to dependence to work for the great private land owners (hacendados), more poverty and migration to the cities.
Ironically Emiliano Zapata another of the great heroes of mexican history was fighting to revert that disparity and get back the land of the natives to form again the communal Ejidos.


In terms of pick an unique and interesting option Humankind did good job with the Soldadera, still I found awkward this because they are from a civil war.
For a more elite mexican unit the Lanceros de Jalisco would be the best option.

The UNAM is more wonder material, better options for UB are the Lienzo Charro and the Capilla Abierta.

Emiliano Zapata is easily my alternate choice to lead Mexico. A true revolutionary. Real advocate for land reforms in favor of Peasants. Zapata was a thorn in the side of the greedy land-owners. Some interesting Unique Unit ideas drawn from the Mexican Revolution 1910. The Zapatista Guerilla would certainly be ideal.

 

[Xandinho]

I'd personally like this design too, though technically for Argentina.

Argentina for me would be a cultural/amenities. It makes sense for them to get some agrarian (or better, cattle raising) bonus, but the biggest basis for their growth should come from some immigration mechanism, imo (I hope they add immigration system in Civ7). Gauchos should have some charges to build pastures, and pastures produced by them should give more production and maybe gold. So Argentina would be cultural/amenity/growth by immigration and with cattle raising mentions, while Mexico would be cultural/agrarian/compact.

 

[BuchiTaton]

Also I know that he never officially lead but would Father Miguel Hidalgo work as a leader as well as the Father of the Nation?

Hidalgo is the official mexican "Padre de la Patria" but actually was kind of incompetent on many ways, military Ignacio Allende disagree with he a lot because Hidalgo's poor militar decisions that finally led to the capture and ejecution of both of them, also was incapable of control the rabble that massacred spanish civilians and because that feared to took México city when he could, did not have a proper plan in the long term like others later caudillos as José María Morelos and Vicente Guerrero, these two would be a way more deserving figures with proper leadership both militar and ideological because even the reason of Hidalgo´s movement was more about criollos rights and anti-napoleonic spanish government, not really about a complete independent mexican nation, at the Grito de Dolores he even said "Viva Fernando VII".

 

[jsciv69]

I'd make Mexico cultural, the country is very culturally recognizable across the world, easily beating everyone in Americas but US. It had like 7th largest number of foreign tourists before the
pandemic, of all countries in the world. In Eastern Europe it is that one Latin American country people wanna visit, recognize, can state some stuff beyond stereotypes etc. Everyone likes Mexico, except some of neighbors
From my vague reading I'd say cultural richess is particuarly great.
I say particulary because I don't think that of every country

Mexican Culture does permeate in many places. Especially throughout the US. Mexican Cuisine is often preferred over American. And speaking of traditional culture. the Mexican Ranchero is what inspired the image of the American Cowboy.

 

[BuchiTaton]

Yep, México is:
- 7th place of most visited countries in the World (Tourism).
- 7th country with most most World Heritage Sites and the number 1 in the whole Americas.
- 6th country with most native languages on the world and also number 1 in the continent.
- 6th most biodiverse country in the world.
- Maize, chocolate, tomato, vanilla, chili, squash, avocado (plus many less popular plants) and turkey (the bird) are some of the mexican foods that changed world wide cuisines. Tacos now have a place on the world wide food close to pizza, sushi and kebab, and mexican cuisine is recognize as Worlds Intangible Cultural Heritage.
- For the average person outside Latam Mexico is the first cultural referent and on the cultural influence ranking is over Argentina or Colombia. These two countries also have a strong cultural influence in music, literature and others forms of art and mass media, but still Mexico have way more immigrants from Argentina and Colombia than the other way included the ones to the entertaiment industry.
- Tequila (and others mezcales), Mariachi music, Sombreros (de ala ancha), Lucha Libre, etc.

I think culture is the obvious strong point for México's in game design.

 

[jsciv69]

I think culture is the obvious strong point for México's in game design.

The Comanchero could be a Unique Trade Unit. Double the normal Culture return. And maybe triple the Culture return when trading with City-States and maybe even Barbarians. Instead of Rock Bands, as I would suggest each Civ has it's own cultural form of music performances, The Mariachi is sent. And the Mariachi culture return is most effective when performing in districts with restaurants, cafes, and resorts. And workers/builders construct Ranches on any tile with animals. And maybe a Tortilla Factory to bolster industrial and culture output.

 

[BuchiTaton]

The Comanchero could be a Unique Trade Unit. Double the normal Culture return. And maybe triple the Culture return when trading with City-States and maybe even Barbarians.

Comancheros is an interesting option but is far from be the best to represent Mexico, they were more relevant for the history of what is now USA's southwest than for México.

Instead of Rock Bands, as I would suggest each Civ has it's own cultural form of music performances, The Mariachi is sent. And the Mariachi culture return is most effective when performing in districts with restaurants, cafes, and resorts.

Agree, each civ should have something proper for their culture instead of Rock Bands, maybe name them Music Stars and be represented with some clips of music and flavor promotions different for each civ.

And maybe a Tortilla Factory to bolster industrial and culture output.

For and industrial UB the best option would be the Mezcalera, that of course produce Mezcal (included the famous Tequila) being a significative industry for both private haciendas in the Northwest and communal ejidos in the Southest, with centuries of history and a significative global market growing each year.

 

[Saint Leibowitz]

Ironically Emiliano Zapata another of the great heroes of mexican history was fighting to revert that disparity and get back the land of the natives to form again the communal Ejidos.


In terms of pick an unique and interesting option Humankind did good job with the Soldadera, still I found awkward this because they are from a civil war.

Alas, most of Mexico's military history consists of civil wars so that'll be an issue with most UU ideas.

I don't think Zapata makes much sense as a leader; he was a dissident with a radically different vision of how Mexican society should function than it actually played out. I do find him and the Zapatistas very fascinating though.

Here's my idea of how a Zapatista unit could work:
-Completely autonomous. Can't be controlled by the player; makes its own decisions.
-Strong combat bonus on Farms and Plantations.
-Does not leave Mexico, automatically fights defensively if invaded.
-Improves the yields of Farms and Plantations if it is not fighting. Roams around these improvements during peacetime.
-Immediately joins a rebellion if one breaks out nearby.

The bonuses should be good enough to offset the flaws. This should ideally make Mexico a powerhouse for growth and certain Luxuries if rebellions can be avoided.

 

[BuchiTaton]

Alas, most of Mexico's military history consists of civil wars so that'll be an issue with most UU ideas.

Lanceros a loyal elite militar unit with over a century of victories againts Spaniards, Comanches, Apaches, Yaquis, Mayas, Texans, Americans and French. On the other hand an anti-goverment people that do not even really see themselves as mexican from a specific local rebelion with a couple of decades.

So would you like Confederate Sharpshooter or Lakota Warrior as American UU?

Alas, most of Mexico's military history consists of civil wars so that'll be an issue with most UU ideas.

I don't think Zapata makes much sense as a leader; he was a dissident with a radically different vision of how Mexican society should function than it actually played out. I do find him and the Zapatistas very fascinating though.

Here's my idea of how a Zapatista unit could work:
-Completely autonomous. Can't be controlled by the player; makes its own decisions.
-Strong combat bonus on Farms and Plantations.
-Does not leave Mexico, automatically fights defensively if invaded.
-Improves the yields of Farms and Plantations if it is not fighting. Roams around these improvements during peacetime.
-Immediately joins a rebellion if one breaks out nearby.

The bonuses should be good enough to offset the flaws. This should ideally make Mexico a powerhouse for growth and certain Luxuries if rebellions can be avoided.

Point the figure of Zapata do not mean to suggest him as the leader of México. Also is funny than your Zapatista unit improve the land when Chiapas is the poorest and most underdeveloped state of México. On the contrary the state of Jalisco from where the most famous Lanceros are from is the state 1° about México's agrarian industry (12% total and 25% of national food comsuption) and the home of Tequila the most iconic, exported and earliest industrialized mexican agrarian product, I think it is obvious who are the ones improving farms and plantations.

 

[Duke William of Normandy]

Seeing a chance to self-promote an idea of mine

HEY THERE

Jokes aside, here's an idea for a UI of Mexico that could fit with the Cultural aspect of Mexico while also giving its Religious history a shoutout as well.

Unique Infrastructure: Capilla Abierta
Mexican Unique District that replaces the Holy Site.
Provides +1 Slot of Great Work of Writing, Great Work of Art, and Great Work of Music each.
Provides Culture equal to 50% of it and its Buildings’ Faith output.

Production Cost: 27
Gold Maintenance: 1

+1 Slot of Great Work of Writing
+1 Slot of Great Work of Art
+1 Slot of Great Work of Music

+1 Great Prophet Point
+1 Great Writer Point
+1 Great Artist Point
+1 Great Musician Point

Citizen Yields(per Citizen): +2 Faith and +1 Culture
Trade Yields: Domestic Destination: +1 Food
International Destination: +1 Faith

Appeal: +1

 

[Birch617]

Here comes my idea for Mexican civ (revised from a previous concept)

Also, I’m lazy rn to make a leader ability, but prolly would go for either a Religious Miguel Hidalgo or Military focused leader from the Mexican Revolution, or anything other than an Imposed Monarch from Europe or Porfirio Diaz

Civ Ability: Entre zócalos y ruinas

Monuments and all levels of walls get +1 Culture for every Wonder in the city; City Centers get +1 Slot for any type of Great Work of art for every 2 Wonders (caps at 5 slot); Great Works inside City Centers have increase Culture and Tourism yields if the other Slots are filled with a Great Work of a different type, if the 5 slots are filled with a different type of Great Work, the City decrease the amount of amenities it needs to enter the Ecstatic level of satisfaction.

Wonders on Ecstatic cities yield +2 Culture per turn.

Panteón Civil (Replaces the Temple)

· Every time a Mexican unit dies in a city with this building, it grants a burst of Faith based on an amount of its Combat Strength + an small extra amount based on Tile Appeal where the unit died.

· +1 Amenity every time a Mexican unit dies in the City (caps at +5)

· After Capping the Amenity from units deaths inside the city, the City will be put into the Happy level of Satisfaction if at least more than 10 Mexican units die inside of the city for 10 turns (even if the City doesn’t reach the Amenity levels it need to reach that state); after 20 or more Mexican units died the same effects happens but with the Ecstatic effect.

· On Happy Cities, increase tourism from the Holy Site, this effect increases even more on Ecstatic Cities

Guardia Rural (Replaces the Line Infantry)

· Slightly cheaper to train

· Gets a Free promotion when trained in a Happy City; additional give a small amount of its Production cost as Culture when trained in an Ecstatic City

· Heals at the end of a turn if adjacent to at least 1 Farm, the heal increase by a small amount for every adjacent Farm

· Gives +2 Appeal to adjacent Tiles with a Farm inside Mexican Territory

· +4 Combat strength to Units on top of Farms if a Guardia Rural is adjacent to that Farm Tile