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Despite 2nd Amendment Cases, Firearms Codes Are Moving Targets

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by JollyRoger, Dec 8, 2010.

  1. JollyRoger

    JollyRoger Slippin' Jimmy Supporter

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    JR on the day Heller was decided:
    The results so far:

    http://www.abajournal.com/magazine/article/an_unsteady_finger_on_gun_control_laws_second_amendment_firearms/

    Even reading U.S. Supreme Court cases, you don't see much love for 2nd Amendment rights. The have seen quite a few cases dealing with the punishment enhancements for possessing a gun and upholding searches that found a gun (so a gun crime could be charged), yet not even a cite to Heller. It is assumed that the gun-unfriendly legislation is fine. The gun lovers won the battle, but the gun grabbers are still winning the war.
     
  2. Ajidica

    Ajidica High Quality Person

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    For us non-lawyers, how does Heller serve as a 'reset' button to gun control laws?
     
  3. JollyRoger

    JollyRoger Slippin' Jimmy Supporter

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    The conventional wisdom of thoose who didn't read Heller or were overly optimistic about it was that it would serve as a starting point to get lower courts to overturn a bunch of gun control laws (thus the "reset"). So far that hasn't happened.
     
  4. Ajidica

    Ajidica High Quality Person

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    Okay, so what exactly did Heller do? State that you can own a gun inside your house?
     
  5. JollyRoger

    JollyRoger Slippin' Jimmy Supporter

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    Even narrower than that:

     
  6. Ceoladir

    Ceoladir Come Fly With Me

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    The second amendment is outdated. Gun's have changed a lot in the last 200 years, and back in those days, gun's were needed for self defense more, since people didn't have a well established or well funded police force. Things started to change when dueling was banned in America.
     
  7. taper

    taper Meet Tux

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    Common misconception that police will protect you. Even in the best areas the cops are minutes away when seconds count, assuming you even get a chance to dial 911.

    I think you'd be surprised at the historical use of guns for self defense. People generally don't carry rifles or shotguns around with them for personal protection and 200 years ago that's all most people owned. The revolver was invented in the early 1800's and wasn't commercially popular until mid century. A single shot flintlock pistol just isn't practical for everyday civilian carry.
     
  8. Bugfatty300

    Bugfatty300 Buddha Squirrel

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    200 years ago, in the colonies, unless you lived on the frontier or something firearms were generally not used for self-defense.

    Which makes sense because armed robberies, home invasions, muggings, random acts of violence, etc that we see today were pretty much unheard of in America 200 years ago.

    The need for personal self-defense is far greater today than it was when the 2nd Amendment was written.
     
  9. Ceoladir

    Ceoladir Come Fly With Me

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    Good point.

    How about 150-100 years ago in the western United States?
     
  10. JollyRoger

    JollyRoger Slippin' Jimmy Supporter

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    Which makes Scalia's reliance on self-defense to hobble to a justification in Heller very curious. It is no wonder that Steven's dissent was more eager to cite Framing era history than Scalia (who relied more on history remote from the Framing era - both relatively ancient English law and later 19th century).
     
  11. Bugfatty300

    Bugfatty300 Buddha Squirrel

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    Even the murder rates in that place and time were no where near what they are today. (Despite what Hollywood says)
     
  12. GhostWriter16

    GhostWriter16 Deity

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    I am well aware of how disgusting DC VS Heller was. But it was better than the alternative. The simple and rightful answer is legalize all firearms, and SCOTUS can shut up since they clearly have no idea what the heck they are talking about.
     
  13. JollyRoger

    JollyRoger Slippin' Jimmy Supporter

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    And remove restrictions on who can possess them, right?
     
  14. GhostWriter16

    GhostWriter16 Deity

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    Yes. Any adult without felonies.
     
  15. MagisterCultuum

    MagisterCultuum Great Sage

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    The simple answer would be to get rid of federal laws governing firearms, but leave states and localities free to regulate their militias.
     
  16. JollyRoger

    JollyRoger Slippin' Jimmy Supporter

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    That's a restriction. Is it possible that you may know as little of what you are talking about as the Supreme Court?
     
  17. .Shane.

    .Shane. Take it like a voter Retired Moderator

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    Your first sentence is correct. But the rest, as other's have pointed out, goes wrong.

    If I had the magic wand of governance I would get rid of the 2nd Amendment and replace it with one that recognizes the historical and social context of gun use in the US. Essentially, recognize a right to personal self-defense and hunting and regulate guns on that basis.
     
  18. GhostWriter16

    GhostWriter16 Deity

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    Yet that doesn't exist, so you are stuck with allowing us all weapons unless/until an amendment is made. Do you agree with this?
     
  19. Theige

    Theige American Baron

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    What state militias?

    Are you referring to the National Guard?
     
  20. JollyRoger

    JollyRoger Slippin' Jimmy Supporter

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    There were already restrictions in the Framing era. You may want to read the dissents in Heller which focus more on the Framing era than Scalia's majority opinion.
     

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