Destiny or choice ?

[Tassadar]

According to religious's belief the futur is already writen in revelation or John's apocalypse vision and other reference.

But it is also know that God give us the ''choice option".

So does our futur is destiny or a choosen choice already knowed ?

I am confuse :fish: .

 

[Speedo]

The end result is shown, our actions along the way are not.

 

[Xen]

or one migth suspect that our choices will lead to one of many possible destiney- the number of them growing smaller and smaller with time, and choices, until only one is left- that said, there is really only one time when the number of possiblities is trully renderd down to a single line, and that would be the moment of death

 

[Sarevok]

the final results are forseeable, but the path to it are not. I agree with that statement.

 

[Tassadar]

But its illogical, it mean wathever we do the end result is the same, so our choice mean nothing to the end result and show the futility of our choice on our destiny.

Darn i am doing philo in english, i hope it sound ok.

 

[Xen]

one might argue that death itself is not the destiny all people have, but rather destiny refers to the sum of a persons acheivements on earth by the time of death

 

[Tassadar]

I am not talking about your own personal destiny, i am talking about the whole humanity destiny.

Edit: destiny refer to the bible's anticipation.

 

[Tassadar]

Or maybe its like in the Matrix movie.


One person single choice ( Neo choice to save trinity) lead to the same destiny as he have choosen not ( his personal connection to the source which lead to peace.)

It is just creating more action but the end is the same.

Edit: I think it was the true moral of this movie: your personal choice mean nothing to humanity destiny.

 

[Speedo]

Really, what is "humanity's destiny"? It is fairly unlikely that we will encounter any other intelligent life within the next couple million years. If you don't believe in any of the religious endings, then I only see about 2 basic paths: (a)spread and multiply; basically a continuation of what we do now. (b)destroy ourselves. In either of those choices made by individuals aren't really going to affect the outcome.

So what is humanity going to do that's so great as to be it's "destiny"?

 

[Mojotronica]

God knows what choices we will make, but we experience the process dynamically, the act of making the choices, because we (unlike God) are not omniscient.

God can't truncate the process to sort our souls instantly for us, because we would still experience the full process of making the choices we make. Or rather God COULD, but we would still experience the process, and all the attendent pleasure and pain.

The choice we make is ultimately obedience. Adam & Eve chose to be DISOBEDIENT, condemning all of humanity to damnation, but God offers us the opportunity to redeem ourselves be choosing obedience.

 

[Aphex_Twin]

The future could be like a bush of possibilities, all leading one point.

 

[Xen]

basically, the stance that personal choice dosenteffect the total outcome of things is the most flawed, and just wrong point of veiw on the subject I can imagine- it is the sum of personal choices which effect the course of humanity- everyone counts

 

[Smidlee]

Originally posted by Tassadar
According to religious's belief the futur is already writen in revelation or John's apocalypse vision and other reference.

But it is also know that God give us the ''choice option".

So does our futur is destiny or a choosen choice already knowed ?

I am confuse :fish: .

wow! you are getting in deep bible doctrine but the answer is both ( according to the bible ) . the Book of Ephesians deals with deep doctrines like predestination , dispensation, etc. that can give an average christian trouble ( Ephasian church was one of the more mature churches to grasp this). the book of Revelation probably shouldn't be studied until you know a lot about the other books of the bible . because some don't ,they come up with alot of crazy nonsense .( example : with the number 666)

 

[Loaf Warden]

In my opinion, there's no such thing as predestination in any sense. Everything we do is by personal choice, and the future is determined by what personal choices we make. There is no one point in the future we're all travelling toward, as every decision we make changes the possible shapes the future will have. The future is never written, and we never know what it will hold until we get there.

But this does seem to be not so much a philosophical discussion as a Biblical one. As a secular philosopher who holds no particular value to the Bible over any other religious text, maybe I should just stay out of it.

 

[Smidlee]

Originally posted by Loaf Warden

But this does seem to be not so much a philosophical discussion as a Biblical one. As a secular philosopher who holds no particular value to the Bible over any other religious text, maybe I should just stay out of it.

well there is also the idea we can predict the future by studing the past since mankind keeps repeating the same mistakes. the bible also seems to hints this in Revelation since it calls a future city "Babylon" . of course it probably wouldn't be called babylon by name but by principle.
As a philosopher do you see us repeating history ?

 

[Loaf Warden]

Originally posted by Smidlee

well there is also the idea we can predict the future by studing the past since mankind keeps repeating the same mistakes. the bible also seems to hints this in Revelation since it calls a future city "Babylon" . of course it probably wouldn't be called babylon by name but by principle.
As a philosopher do you see us repeating history ?

In some ways, yes, and in others, no. It's true that some things do seem to keep happening again and again, but history is such a complex thing, I don't think we can use it as a long-term guide in anything more than general principle. We can make reasonable predictions about what will happen in specific situations in the short term based on what we've read in history books. But the farther in the future you try to go, the more general you have to get. Go far enough, and you can't really predict anything at all. There are too many variables in the study of history, and you never know when something will suddenly pop up and throw everything off.

 

[Phantom Lord]

Originally posted by Aphex_Twin
The future could be like a bush of possibilities, all leading one point.

Yes, something like that, sort of reversed entropy. No matter how chaotic the means, they lead to similar ends.

 

[Tassadar]

Originally posted by Xen
it is the sum of personal choices which effect the course of humanity- everyone counts

But if the course of humanity is already written in a 2000 years old book, it mean the sum of human's choice wont effect anything at all, whatever those choice are.

If we have realy a choice or sum of choice, then the futur should stay unkow until those choice are made. But in the bible, it is more like the scenario is already written, the end well knowed and we are just acting the whole scene, so we have no choice.

 

[Xen]

that depends- I for one dont think that the bible has any real knowledge of the future, frankly, I think its absured that claim

 

[cgannon64]

Both. I can can choose my path, but many things are outside of my hands. They may not necessarily be fate or destiny, but to me, they might as well be, since I have no control over them.

About the apocalypse stories...that is one thing that (IMO) is destiny. If God chooses when the world ends, the fate is sealed. Or, if you don't beleive in God, the universe will freeze and die eventually whether we like it or not...