Destroy Capitals?

[KINGinside.out]

For awhile now every time I get into a war and can take the capital I raze it, I dont care if all the ancient wonders are in there it seems as long as there are others cities the capital will flip in a few turns. So even if I dont finish off the country I have atleast put a shot to their culture. I should say I think culture is one of the most important aspects of the game. Also, in wars if I think I cant destroy the civ or dont want to waste the time fighting for a hundred years I usually try to raze cities farther away from my capital and closer to theirs so as to provide a good culture cushion so the newly taken cities wont flip, maybe I hate flipping to much, or maybe Im just a big warmonger but thats just me. So does anyone else do this?

 

[Ralph-x]

Capture the capital the nsell it back to them for the rest of their citys in a peace deal, then take it again it 20 turns later and repeat if nessary, or so I hear.

 

[KINGinside.out]

I like that idea, it its works I will definately try it. Do peace treaties last for 20 turns too? On the screen it says the deal will last until war is redeclared. And I just realized sometimes taking the capital further incites them. My last game I razed Paris and the French refused my envoy,even though I had taken several other cities and they war had clearly tipped to my favor. Maybe destroying the star of their nation mad them angry? Plus, I always make up my own name and stuff for my civ and like to replace where the former cap was with my own city glorifing me, if only "Fortress of the Great Imperialate of Movientcia" would fit...

 

[Hellfire]

If you violate a peace treaty 20 years after you set it, you get a diplomatic penalty with the rest of the world.

 

[Angmar]

Fill the city with lots of troops and then turn everyone into entertainers.. make them dance around under the watchful eye of the garrison until they starve to death!

Make sure that each time the population changes that you visit the city and turn them back into entertainers. If not those unwashed masses might breed!

 

[Allemand]

I like to destroy their capital, too. If it is in a good position, I usually bring a settler up to replace it. Don't have to worry about that one flipping.

If the capital has an important wonder, I consider alternatives, but usually the capital is history.

 

[cavemanf16]

Oooh, destroying Wonders is a bad thing for me. I consider the huge boost to my happiness and culture from obtaining wonders to be too important in gaining momentum to keep up with those Civ's that aren't waging war while I am. I will have to try the 'capture capital, sell for cities, repeat' strategy though. That may really work wonders in my current campaign against the Carthaginians...

 

[Henry_X]

Capture the capital the nsell it back to them for the rest of their citys in a peace deal, then take it again it 20 turns later and repeat if nessary, or so I hear.

I'm not sure that works anymore, but that's the way I used to play. But games are a lot harder when you don't have any friends/tradepartners.

Now I usually take their capitol as a trophy and I just like seeing my civ a lot in the Wonder-screen.

 

[peace_frog]

You still destroy their culture even if you don't raze the city. Capitals produce a lot of culture because they have building that benefit from the 1000+ year culture bonus. Conquering the city immediately wipes out that bonusYou do not get any culture for yourself from captured wonders, although you do get their other benefits. I know a number of players on higher levels always go after the city that got the great library so they can keep it for themselves. I do not think that the other civ gets culture points from the great wonder again even if you give it back, but I am uncertain about that. Can anybody clarify?

I too go after the capitals whenever possible to diminish culture and productivity. I rarely raise. I'm a trader and it seems to hurt my cred.

 

[Moulton]

I have never had a capital flip on me, but then my games tend to be long, on large or huge worlds. I like to take the capital as soon as possible, and all other cities around it, forcing him to a new, raw colony for his new capital -- ie... no imbedded culture.
Had a funny thing last night, though -- UR, in a new game, right next to the capital, flipped to me early in the game. I started a temple, and built a road to it, but then it flipped back....a few turn later... I wonder if I had rushed the temple, if it would have stayed???

 

[Henry_X]

I do not think that the other civ gets culture points from the great wonder again even if you give it back, but I am uncertain about that. Can anybody clarify?

All buildings who produce culture , get more productive the older they are. If a city is captured , it loses its age-advantage. So from that moment on the library and others start producing the same amount of culture as a new library, even after if it's "liberated".

 

[Moonsinger]

The AI capital has always been tough for me to keep. Even after I relocate all of its citizens (by constantly rushing settler until it is down to size 1), it would still have a good chance of flipping back. Therefore, I usually raze all their cities. And yes, I'm builder and trader too. Even when all the AIs are furious with me (which they usually are in most of my game since I'm razing alot), I have no problem in trading and making GPT deal with them. Just as long as you honor all your treaties with them, they will trade with you. The AIs may be angry, but they aren't stupid. If you never break a deal with them, they will do business with you no matter what.

 

[SanPellegrino]

remember that a city can only flip if its in the tile radius of an enemy city, so it isn't necessary to put a lot of units in every city you conquer.

But I like to raze capitals, too. Before finishing the game by culture, diplomacy or spaceship I like to raze the capitals that are in the top5 list, to have only my cities displaying there

 

[Moulton]

A city can flip --and has on me -- when ther is no city of the original culture near it. Intombe fliipped back on me a few days ago, and its new capital was an island with pop 1, two turns away by transport.
As to trade,-- yes it is incongruous to have Rome furious, but say "We welcome your trade any time.... "
But alliances? Egypt asked for MPP/ROP for two tech advances. She was in polite mode, but when I suggested up to 6 luxuries and gold with just one tech, she said 'France has told us of your perfidy..." Not true... France was weak and far behind in tech, and I gave her several luxuries from time to time. I had from 2 to 10 extra of every luxury, so no way could I sell them all... didn't need the gold anyway.

 

[SanPellegrino]

Originally posted by Moulton
A city can flip --and has on me -- when ther is no city of the original culture near it.

only if they used the espionage propaganda option. I suggest the great thread "culture flipping explained" by Soren Johnson from Firaxis for those who have questions/uncertainties about culture flipping.

 

[Moulton]

The city was Zulu, Intombe. Pop 12, 4 resisters, 7 entertaniers.
They may have had espionage -- the tech had been advanced. But I am democracy... and espionage takes money. They had 00
The civ was down to 4 or 5 island cities,nearest being about 12 squares away. No other cities flipped back.

I did have several flip to me, but not Zulu.

I won the game the next night by a culture win: they were in awe of my culture.

I had four garrison troops in the city. No big loss, just an annoyance.

 

[SanPellegrino]

posted by dan magaha and soren Johnson of Firaxis

"The base values used to determine the chance of city flipping are as follows:

A) The number of foreign nationals in the city in question (resisters are counted twice), and

B) The number of the 21-tile city-radius squares of the city in question that fall inside your cultural borders.


These numbers are then further modified by a variety of factors, applied multiplicatively. Here those are, in order of importance:


1) The ratio of distances to the respective capitals of both cities. Basically, if you're closer to your capital than the other city is to its capital, you've got a better chance of getting a flip.

2) The ratio of total culture points of both civs. Obviously, the better your culture is versus the opponent civ, the better your chance of getting a flip are.

3) I didn't even know this, but apparently each city has a "memory" and remembers the total amount of culture generated by any civ who has ever occupied it. This is the 3rd most important factor, because if the "attacking" civ has more historical culture in the city than the "defender", the chance of that city flipping to the attacker are doubled. This is one reason that conquered cities often flip back to their previous owners.

4) Civil Disorder in a city doubles the chance of that city flipping.

5) We Love the King (or whatever) Day in a city halves the chance of that city flipping.

6) Lastly, the number of land-based combat units (e.g., any unit with at least 1 point of offensive and defensive capability) in the city in question are subtracted. This factor is relatively low on the totem pole and this shows you why cities can flip even with huge militias garrisoned in them.


Hope this helps.


Dan"

 

[KINGinside.out]

This post sheds some more light on what I have experienced. One of my better, or maybe the best game I dare say I ever played(and it was on an airplane!?). Anyway I finally got into with the Romans that wre land locked north of me, I went up fought and went for Rome, that stupid city flipped TWICE before I just took it again and left no stone standing on another. This is really where I started the practice, and plus ridding the world of over evil civs caps gives you a good boost in the end game stats. The last game I played I took paris, burned it, and took another city. The French(I know conquering the French isnt much to brag about) had 2 cities left, close together and the last one I took flipped!! That surprized me, but I knocked them off anyway. HA, sac le bleur! Joan

 

[Trev]

Culture flips are sometimes unpredictable, in one case a city i captured from the Japanese when it was size 1 with no culture (was using early version of the game) flipped back to them about 100 turns later. Their nearest cities were on another continent about 30 squares away. I had built several cultural improvements.

In another game a Zulu city flipped to me, when I had accumlated 97 cultural points in the city, it flipped back, 70 plus turns later it flipped back to me again and thankfully stayed with me then. ( I destroyed the zulus soon after that anyway

 

[Seanirl]

"If you violate a peace treaty 20 years after you set it, you get a diplomatic penalty with the rest of the world."

THEN BEHEAD THEM! AND PARADE THEIR HEADS AROUND ON A STICK FOR THE WORLD TO ADMIRE!

.... that was an impression of Thor in GTA:Vice City btw...

I love warmongering