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Destroying the Great Wall

Discussion in 'Civ3 - Strategy & Tips' started by undertoad, Sep 5, 2009.

  1. undertoad

    undertoad Warlord

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    A few games back I managed to destroy the Great Wall Wonder by accident when bombarding a city with artillery. I thought Wonders couldn't be destroyed - except by razing the city of course.

    Is the Great Wall an exception?

    As it happened this was a good thing, as all the Walls in the enemy <7 towns disappeared as well. But I already had Metallurgy, which makes the Great Wall obsolete - what happens to the improvements granted by expiring Wonders (Great Wall and Temple of Artemis) when the Wonder expires? I'd heard that, on expiry, all the improvements disappear - this is why I never build these Wonders myself, as I'd hate to rely on Temples to keep order and have them all suddenly disappear. But my game seems to indicate that the Walls don't disappear when Metallurgy is discovered.

    Maybe the expiry of the Wonder means that new towns/newly-conquered towns no longer get the free improvement?
     
  2. CHEESE!

    CHEESE! On a long nostalgia trip

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    I believe a bug meant you could destroy anything with bombard, even a Palace.
     
  3. Aabraxan

    Aabraxan Mid-level Micromanager

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    IIRC, the Great wall is an exception because this is a bug. And yes, when a wonder expires, all the improvements created by it vanish. Why do you say that your "game seems to indicate that the Walls don't disappear when Metallurgy is discovered?"
     
  4. vmxa

    vmxa Deity Supporter

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    There is a known bug that involves the GW. As you have seen the improvement granted by a wonder, will be gone, after it expires. No new towns will gain that improvement. The free temples can be replaced by hand built ones and if the town already had a hand built, it will not lose it.
     
  5. undertoad

    undertoad Warlord

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    Well, I was invading the Mongols, with Cannon as part of my force, so Metallurgy was obviously known. And the Mongols had Walls all over the place - only in their <7 towns, of course, since (I read - I never build Walls myself) Walls disappear when a town grows into a city.

    Now maybe those Walls were "handbuilt" ones. Building Walls is the kind of thing the Mongols would do. But it seems they weren't, they were "auto-built" ones provided by the GW. The proof of this is that, once I destroyed the GW, they all suddenly disappeared!

    I believe you when you say improvements disappear on expiry - people on these forums are very knowledgeable, and if someone says something incorrect someone else always pops up to correct them! But this game seems to disprove that. Maybe it's part of the GW bug CHEESE and vmxa refer to?

    There's a report of the same bug, with odd "disappearing walls", in an earlier version here.

    Might be able to dig out the save if this sounds weird enough to warrant looking into. Not that a bug-fix is likely.
     
  6. Optional

    Optional Deity

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    You knew it, but for a wonder to become obsolete, the civ that owns the wonder has to know the tech that expires it.
     
  7. Aabraxan

    Aabraxan Mid-level Micromanager

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    I think Optional has called it here. The GW doesn't become obsolete just because Metallurgy is discovered. It becomes obsolete for you at the point where you discover Metallurgy. The walls disappeared because you destroyed the GW. If the Mongols had known Metallurgy, the GW would have been obsolete & the walls would have disappeared. Here's Aabraxan's Dastardly Deed of the Day: The next time you want to attack a foe who has the GW and you know Metallurgy, give them Metallurgy right before DOWing.
     
  8. undertoad

    undertoad Warlord

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    Wow, that's completely new to me. I always thought that Wonders became obsolete if anyone discovered the tech. IIRC that was the way it worked in CivII.

    So from what you say, it's possible for a civ to go on enjoying a Wonder while the rest of the world races ahead of them. And, as Aabraxan said, you can do dastardly deeds by gifting/selling techs to civs to spoil their Wonders.

    Great information, thanks!
     
  9. Snarkhunter

    Snarkhunter Prince

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    Which leads to the Great Library ploy: Build it, gift its city to someone far away before learning education, shut down research, wait until competitors have gotten well on up in techs, then seize it back: even though education makes it obsolete, you still get all the techs that at least 2 civs know before that provision kicks in. Some folks leapfrog an entire age this way, or more. Variant is to notice that an AI close to you has the GLib, shut down research, conquer city, get all the techs from GLib as per above. That one I've done, got half the MA techs that way, leaving only 2 to research to get into IA. Quite weird to see when that happened, as in the middle of it I got the notice that the GLib had gone obsolete, yet the techs kept piling in ;)

    kk
     
    need my speed likes this.
  10. Jivilov

    Jivilov Prince

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    So the Great Wall only provides walls for towns of the owner? Does that mean if you bombard a city of a Civ that has it successful bombardment will NOT destroy city improvements, only defenders' hit points? Don't wanna drag a siege train into enemy territory just to find that out myself. Thanks.
     
  11. justanick

    justanick Emperor

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    Yes, that is right while there are hitpoints left to removed by bombardement.

    Only towns can have (active) walls. Cities enjoy +50% defence whether they have walls or not. Once a town becomes a city the walls are useless.

    https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/bombardment-of-settlements-in-c3c-1-22.647207/
     
  12. Jivilov

    Jivilov Prince

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    Thanks again justanick. So I could've used cannon against defenders in 10-Pop Lisbon during the last game; might've saved a couple dead cavalrymen. Already checked out the link and posted a reply. Cheers and happy gaming!
     
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2019

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