Detailed Tradition Game

[besset]

Getting it is unlikely. Instead I built the Mausoleum of Halicarnassus, and for my tech path I pursued a fast sailing for the extra trade route, then drama and poetry for the cultural boost.

I always try to get mausoleum AND hanging gardens, just because of all the food from hanging gardens. It allows you to work all specialist slots. But maybe it's not worth targeting, i usually don't get it

 

[CrazyG]

Up to religion:

Spoiler 2nd Great Prophet :

I get my religion next turn, 2nd after a civ on another continent.
For beliefs I'm taking Apostolic Tradition. This along with spamming missionaries will cause my capital to grow very quickly.
I'm taking mastery, its the best pick for tradition by a big margin.

This is a good example of a culture/science/faith focused tradition build order. For tech I went straight for drama and poetry and you can see all cities building amphitheaters (which is what I'm putting my gold into). Parthenon was already built, before Oracle, which is uncommon. I always build culture, science and faith buildings first and prioritize production later.

After that I get philosophy and push out temples, then straight to education for the university of Sankore.This means you have to defend yourself with just archers and walls for a while, and the Arena-Forge-Barracks trio is delayed a long time, but theres a big payoff.

Spoiler A Look at Turn 101 :

My empire after entering medieval era. I'm the first civ to reach it so Sankore is secured.

Earlier I denounced and fought Brazil, which gave me friendship with Russia and China. This is great because it means my rear, Russia, won't attack me, and I keep a small army ready for Indonesia. He is at war with China so he most likely won't war me, and I'll keep just a small force ready. Brazil and Russia both missed religion so I can convert them.

Spoiler A Perk of Being Carthage :

With my extra promotion I see what is likely the next continent and meet Mongolia early. This is useful for luxuries (I give my capital WLTKD by getting perfume from Mongolia, and get gold for selling to him). I also wait until a quest for his land before I cross over, to get science and influence from a city-state.

 

[suriv]

Thanks Crazy for the photo journal. I have a question. Do you pop the GP as they are born or wait for Sankore? Somehow pyramids always seem to go by turn 21 - 25 in my games. Its almost impossible to get them unless I get lucky with CS meets and save enough gold to boost it. Stonehenge seems to be a better option if we can get it by turn 26 - 28. I am also interested in the total GP's your cities produced at various points in the game. Thanks once again for the journal.

 

[CrazyG]

Thanks Crazy for the photo journal. I have a question. Do you pop the GP as they are born or wait for Sankore? Somehow pyramids always seem to go by turn 21 - 25 in my games. Its almost impossible to get them unless I get lucky with CS meets and save enough gold to boost it. Stonehenge seems to be a better option if we can get it by turn 26 - 28. I am also interested in the total GP's your cities produced at various points in the game. Thanks once again for the journal.

Usually I pop as soon as born. If its just a few turns I might save for Sankore (but this isn't common).

On Pyramids: Are you playing with ancient ruins? It causes AI to get a much faster start.

 

[suriv]

Playing as Maya (also Milae's patch). so enabled ruins for the latest game. But I remember the same for my game with Gandhi & Austria. Maybe the 12-player vs 8-player as all these are on huge maps with abundant resources? I always have Rome/Assyria/Celts/Ramkham/Perisa .. sometimes more than one of them .. and one of them always beeline to it.

In my latest game with Maya (and the one with Ethiopia), I saved my GP until I got to banking (top tree all along). With ceremonial burial, I end up finishing 3 policy trees by turn 160 - 175ish (3 cities/tradition/aritstry(statecraft))/rationalism. Curious to compare the stats at that phase of the game.
Once again thanks for the response and game.

 

[Stalker0]

I'm taking mastery, its the best pick for tradition by a big margin.

Mastery just never seems all that good to me. I mean compared to the power of religious buildings that give big multipliers, mastery is giving a few more yields and a few more GAP points... I never see the appeal.

 

[suriv]

Mastery just never seems all that good to me. I mean compared to the power of religious buildings that give big multipliers, mastery is giving a few more yields and a few more GAP points... I never see the appeal.

I kinda feel the same as well as I am in perma golden age when going tradition/artistry.

 

[CrazyG]

Mastery just never seems all that good to me. I mean compared to the power of religious buildings that give big multipliers, mastery is giving a few more yields and a few more GAP points... I never see the appeal.

I'll post how many yields I'm getting from mastery at various points. It's very strong.

 

[CrazyG]

Mastery just never seems all that good to me. I mean compared to the power of religious buildings that give big multipliers, mastery is giving a few more yields and a few more GAP points... I never see the appeal.

What religious building do you have in mind here? You can get a free mosque in the capital from Sankore and (spoiler) I'm going to take synagogues as my 2nd follower if possible (it usually is).

 

[Stalker0]

I'll post how many yields I'm getting from mastery at various points. It's very strong.

I was curious as well. I currently have synagoues going in a Tradition China game, so I thought I would take a look at a current snapshot in my game

Synogogue: +15 hammers, +15 faith, +13.2 science (Turn 159).

Mastery: +12 culture, +5 science, +2 gold, +2 hammers, + (whatever a civil servant gives?), +22 GAP

Now the trick with mastery is, my base yields can also get multiplied by other multipliers. So looking at that its roughly.

Mastery: +16.8 culture, +6 science, +2 gold, +2 hammers, +civil servant, +22 GAP.


So....pretty comparable on total yields depending on how you feel about GAP (I think they are mostly worthless), but yeah mastery does seem pretty darn solid had I taken it over synagogues, at least for now.

 

[CrazyG]

I was curious as well. I currently have synagoues going in a Tradition China game, so I thought I would take a look at a current snapshot in my game

Synogogue: +15 hammers, +15 faith, +13.2 science (Turn 159).

Mastery: +12 culture, +5 science, +2 gold, +2 hammers, + (whatever a civil servant gives?), +22 GAP

Civil servant gets gold from mastery.

I love synagogues as tradition but usually take it as my 2nd follower.
When are you building the synagogues? It does nothing until you build them, and with 5 cities that's 1000 faith, almost enough to enhance your religion. Beyond that, you pay 200 faith for 3 faith a turn. So for the first 66 turns they are still negative on faith, and that's when faith is most important. In this game for example if I didn't go for missionaries immediately I likely wouldn't have converted both Russia and Brazil to my religion.

Your multipliers seem really low to me. I tested my game on turn 162 and a 7 culture specialist in my capital is earning 13 culture in practice.

 

[Stalker0]

Your multipliers seem really low to me. I tested my game on turn 162 and a 7 culture specialist in my capital is earning 13 culture in practice.

In the capital with no GA (I just fell out), on turn 198.

+25% culture. I think it would be +50% if I was in the GA.

 

[Stalker0]

In the capital with no GA (I just fell out), on turn 198.

+25% culture. I think it would be +50% if I was in the GA.

ok with GA looks like its 80%. I forgot the GA modifier is seperate from the city.

Actually....does the GA multiplier multiplicative?

Aka if I have a 25% modifier in my city, and a +20% GA modifier for 10 culture. Is the final culture...

10 * (1 + .25 + .20) = 14.5
or
10 * 1.25 * 1.20 = 15


Normally modifiers are additive (1st example) but is GA a special exception since its noted outside of the normal city screen?

 

[CrazyG]

Normally modifiers are additive (1st example) but is GA a special exception since its noted outside of the normal city screen?

Yes because its separate its multiplicative. There is a city level calculation and an empire level.

 

[besset]

Usually I pop as soon as born. If its just a few turns I might save for Sankore (but this isn't common).

On Pyramids: Are you playing with ancient ruins? It causes AI to get a much faster start.

What tiles are the best to put GP improvements on?

And when do you start popping GP instead of using on a tile?

 

[stii]

You want GP improvements on titles that produce the best yields that have bad improvements. So generally farms, it used to be wheat but as it now gives production I just put in on a non river plains. With cities this close to together you aren't ever going to waste good titles from working too many specialists.

I'd generally plant 3 GS 4 GW (for theming) all GA until they give most of a golden age, all GM unless I really need it late game. GM as the title is still pretty bad and the pop effect is pretty good. GE always pop for any reasonable wonder, Pantheon is ideal and happens a reasonable amount and lines up well. I think waiting for Sankore is the most reasonable wonder to wait for as it is powerful, somewhat contested and you get the bonus from the GE right away, maybe even the policy culture too not sure how that lines up.

 

[CrazyG]

What tiles are the best to put GP improvements on?

And when do you start popping GP instead of using on a tile?

Tiles:
Usually on a bonus resource that has a weak improvement. Wheat, rice, or corn are commonly good picks. Empty grassland or plains get filled up eventually too, and towns can go along roads between cities.

Great Writer:
4 great works should be enough to theme Oxford University and 1 amphitheater. Then I get the instant boost.
Artist:
Great works early on, then drop a couple for golden age points as needed.
Musician:
Great works for most of the game. By the like industrial era the concert mission is better but they take a long time to travel and its hard to get a window without war to use it.
Engineer:
I usually plant like 3? Nothing wrong with immediately using these guys early game though.
Scientist:
If taking rationalism, I plant every guy until I reach the extra yields in rationalism. Otherwise I'll start popping after reaching industrial era. Nothing wrong with popping a bit earlier if you want a really key tech.
Merchant:
Towns aren't too important and the instant gold can make a big difference. However if you take the +4 faith +4 science to great person tiles then I probably plant 4 or 5 as towns.

EDIT: Another thing you can do is if a great person is coming and you are planning to chop jungle/forest, plan to use him to chop instantly

 

[Stalker0]

Towns aren't too important and the instant gold can make a big difference. However if you take the +4 faith +4 science to great person tiles then I probably plant 4 or 5 as towns.

Towns also become a bit better if your going freedom, as the Transnationalism tenent turns each one of them into a free extra franchise.

 

[CrazyG]

Towns also become a bit better if your going freedom, as the Transnationalism tenent turns each one of them into a free extra franchise.

Could you write a guide for corporations? Because I don't really understand what this means well enough to evaluate how strong it is.

 

[Stalker0]

Could you write a guide for corporations? Because I don't really understand what this means well enough to evaluate how strong it is.

do you understand how franchises provide benefits? Effectively this tenent just increases your max franchises by 1, and gives you an immediate franchise, for each town you have.