Dethroning a dominant nation

[SKILORD]

I'm playing as persia, my Startup position wasn't bad, better than most actualy. Through wars with England and Germany i expanded a great deal, France expanded more. Frances starting position ended up containin saltpeter, which ended up being pretty rare. France is now the most powerful nation in the world, i'm a close second. how can i get to be on top without a war i'd probley loose without saltpeter (for cavalry and cannons). the only other source of saltpeter i've found is Babylon and they only have 1. they are also my 2nd closest ally so i don't wanna conqure them. France, who used to be a gracious ally , is also now annoyed.

 

[Arvedui]

I think you have two alternatives. 1) Conquering the Babs for their saltpeter and then waging a war against France. 2) Or you could wait until saltpeter is no longer of the essence, and then fighting the frenchies.

 

[Grey Knight]

3) Trade for the Saltpeter, and mobilize for war (well, in philosophy at least). Build lots of saltpeter units in your 20 turns -- remember, you only need the resource to start the build. When you get a comfortable stack, start the war and grab the resource ASAP!

 

[eyrei]

Wait until riflemen are available, fortify your border with France, and declare war. Then sign alliances with several other civs that border France. After they beat up on each other for a number of turns, move some riflemen in to disable the French saltpeter. They will eventually run out of cavalry. Wait a while longer, as the French exhaust themselves, and then take the city near the saltpeter with knights and riflemen. You will take some losses, but sometimes this is necessary.

 

[Ouchgeddon]

With Greece (as usual), I got stuck on a smallish continent with Egypt and Rome. Egpyt ended up the widest spread, while I raced for and got most of the early Wonders. I tried an attack on Egypt but gave up and loaded.

Near end of Medieval research, Egypt declared war on me for no reason and took 3 cities (out of my 7). One turn after the taking of a city, it reverted due to my high Culture except for the one closest to Egypt's capital.

But you don't wanna hear that. Egypt had the Iron, Saltpeter and Horses while I had nil Resources. After paying others to gang up on Egypt (but only Rome is near enough to do damage), I went straight for Barracks then Hoplites, Longbows, Catapults. As a Democracy I had war weariness but still enough cash per turn to rush troops. By concentrating on one spot at a time (and due to Culture reversion killing several enemy troops who were in my cities) my primitive force defeated Knights, Cannons and those musket users with quite heavy losses. But hey, I win right? This was on level 4 difficulty and proves that city block of Biohazard 3 zombies CAN overwhelm one elite SWAT team.

 

[Dutchman]

If the saltpeter is near the border of the babs or the frenchies just build a city next to it, rush temple and library and you will expand into his territory and get the saltpeter, if it is more to the middle, just repeat it a few more times, it doesn't matter if the city's are totally corrupt it's just for the culture war!

good luck

 

[Lkysam]

When dethroning a domination civ use nukes I am in my current game. I am persians and they are Irquois. I have modern Armor but they dont have the money to upgrade thier tanks so I nuke thier capital and surounding cities then use my tanks to clean up the mess By the way how do you make a poll

 

[FireDragon]

Hello, first post and all, I have crossed over from Apolyton because this site has better civ3 strategy and its server isn't down as much. Not as good of an Off-Topic forum, but at least this forum has the smiley.

Anyway, to the point. Get a few good offensive units, a quick unit, and a lot of defensive units. Take one city. Then prepare for a massive onslaught. The AI will use up most of its offensive army attacking. It helps if the city is near some mountains. Then you can fortify the defensive units on the mountains. Once their attacks have abated, send a small quick unit, I prefer Jaguar warriors, but you can use a horse unit, and take out their saltpeter. If you can, get their horses or iron. You don't want knights counterattacking. You have to get the strategic resources before their reinforcements are built. Then once you have their strategic resources killed, you can watch and laugh when they come at you with longbowmen. If you are feeling confident, take a couple more cities, demand their extra tech, and all their money, and maybe even some extra per-turn money. Their lead won't seem so big any more.

 

[SKILORD]

i caught up to them and found some saltpeter on a previously unexplored island.... if you wanna read about it there's a link in my signature.

 

[Jimcat]

Well, it looks like a moot point now, but my option would have been to research Replaceable Parts and then attack France with a heavy force of Infantry and Artillery.

Of course, that assumes you wind up with Rubber. If you get to the mid-Industrial age with no rubber and no saltpeter, then boy, you are out of luck.

If you're an aggressive player, then a massive attack with backward forces can win the day. Don't underestimate your Longbowmen! They CAN take out Musketmen, although your losses will be high. Send a medieval combined-arms force of Longbowmen and Knights protected by a few Pikemen, and go straight for the Saltpeter source. It won't be easy, but you can win that way.

 

[elfstorm]

If I play and find myself in conflict with a large and powerful civ, I always use the same tatic.

I raze their capital.

No matter how large their army there's no way they can stop you moving a strike force by sea and landing next to their capital.

Okay sometimes this is geographically impossible, but otherwise it's a good policy. You can usually sue for peace afterwards as well. There is nothing like losing your capital to knock the stuffing out of you.

If they are still really powerful then repeat every 15 - 20 turns.

ps - make sure your cities are well defended though, they're liable to despise you for this...

 

[titanium]

Remember these words: "GREED BEGETS STUPIDITY".

Analyze well what you want to accomplish. Saltpeter is not everything.

If you plan to wage an all out war at your stage, then by all means do the stupid thing of just marching into their territory and be annihilated by his far more powerful units. The Cavalry is not an easy opponent.

But then again, you can opt for a wiser move. Live peacefully with them, develop your cities (university, factory, etc.), build up your defenses and research like hell until you get to higher technologies.

As always, there is a wildcard in here - Resources. If you get lucky enough to get oil and rubber for your tanks - I say DAMN to his Cavalry. That is the time to build up an offesive and take him down. Or you can build up your spaceship and leave him in this god-forsaken planet.

SCIENCE IS THE KEY .... Be on the look out for Theory of Evolution. Do not downplay the importance of this wonder to get a big boost in your quest for advancement (or catch-up, whatever is your case) in Science.

 

[ara1978]

it has always been the case for me to be a dominant force early in the game. modern warfare are too complex and costly compared to ancient times warfare. i haven't been very successfull in waging modern warfare unless i hold the overwhelming force. but by that point of the game, all other civs are at least dominant enough to produce infantry, riffleman, tanks, bombers in vomit-inducing quantity.

unfortunetly, going crazy at the beg. means that i usually get behind in the tech race. its true that the civ im fighting off will be in a worst situation that i will be, but other civs usually blaze ahead.

and it gets really annoying if your teritory doesnt have a lot of resource. the game ihave been playing didn't start me with horse and saltpeter. i had to take them by force. now i found that theres no rubber or oil (but there are three coals.) and all other civs have bombers, tanks and destroyers taking pot shots at my improvements.

so what do u do then?

 

[elfstorm]

ara1978:

when outgunned wage wars for very limited goals. If you need oil find an oil resource near the coast or your own border and then take it.

Overwelming force in one limited area. As soon as you take it, sue for peace!!!!

The key to victory is preparation and weight of numbers. It doesn't matter how many units you lose so long as you achieve your goal and get peace.

It might be an expensive peace, but it's only until you build enough tanks to redress the balance.

I once went to war in a similar position to yourself. It was very successful, I took 2 french and 1 German city. They had Modern Armor, Aircraft and Mech Infantry. I had ordinary infantry.

Use artillery to injure their units then make your infantry attack. You'll be surprised how often they win.