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Deutsch 101

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by scherbchen, Nov 15, 2009.

  1. metatron

    metatron unperson

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    I'm not sure if i have the right idea here.
    I thought this is about someone picking up a present on behalf of someone else.
    Like: A and B are goiung to go to C's party. A and B are on the phone and A tells B to get an extra present A can later give to C. A suggests it should be sufficiently pricy so he wouldn't look like a cheap. Like "get me something decent".

    I may be completely wrong. But that's the story i made up in my mind.
    Fahr nicht her. ("Her" is short for hierher).
    bei dir =/= mit dir
    But depending on the situation there could be some innuendo none the less, even though the sentence is completely neutral. You could make it more distanced and polite if you want to.
    "Kann ich bei dir übernachten." For starters...hmm...and if that person does not live completely alone (single in an apartment) you could just use "euch" instead of "dir".
    As i said: Your sentence is allready quite neutral.
    In deinem Haus schlafen is not really German (technically it's correct though).
    Apart from that zuhause/zu Hause business (= at home) we really use Haus mostly to describe the actual physical thing. Bricks and stuff. "In deinem Haus schlafen" is possible, but it sounds...odd. I don't think i've heard anybody say that. "In deiner Wohnung" (flat, apartment) is possible, though.
    The thing is: We don't have any noun that we would use in a literal translation of "at your place". That's just a defect. We should come up with one.
    We usually just say "bei dir", "bei euch", or go directly for the place in ones home that one would use ("auf deiner Couch", "in euerem Gästezimmer").
    In that case "hoffentlich" is really walking the line as it is. It's such a fluffy, cheery word...

    Lot's of insignificant details. I'm not sure whether you wanted to know all that. :blush: :)

    Edit:
    Holy crosspost! :)
     
  2. LightSpectra

    LightSpectra me autem minui

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    On my German test's vocabulary section, I couldn't remember the word for margarine (incidentally it's "die Margarine"), so I wrote "Ich kann nicht glauben, dass es nicht Butter ist."

    I don't suppose that advertising slogan exists in Germany?
     
  3. The_J

    The_J Say No 2 Net Validations Retired Moderator Supporter

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    I think there's something similar, not sure :think:.
    Getting a patent might be worth a try :D.
     
  4. LightSpectra

    LightSpectra me autem minui

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    Tell me if this translation is correct.

    Original: "Man should be like iron, tempered with virtue which cannot be broken by adversity."

    My translation: "Man sollt wie Eisen seien: vergütet mit Tugend, die wegen keine Widrigkeit zerbrechen können wird."
     
  5. Gigaz

    Gigaz civoholic

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    That comparison is a bad sentence in English, so don't expect a good translation. First of all, one tempers the steel and not the iron. Second, I can think of no german verb that makes sense in the context of metal working and the forming of a human character, that makes the translation of the word "tempered" difficult. Third, the process of tempering should make the steel harder while in the man, the virtue itself shall not be broken. That makes it basically a wrong comparison.
    Forth, the English sentence doesn't clarify the sex of "Man", while in German, you would propably begin the sentence with "Ein Mann".
    You could go with

    "So wie das Eisen mit Kohle vergütet wird, so sollte ein Mann mit Tugend vergütet sein, die durch keine Widrigkeit zerbrochen werden kann."
     
  6. Leoreth

    Leoreth Friend Next Door Moderator

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    Well, if you want a literal translation first to check your grammar, it would be:

    "Der Mensch sollte wie Eisen sein, gehärtet durch Tugend, die durch keine Widrigkeit gebrochen werden kann."

    Some assumptions on my part:
    - as Gigaz already said, "to temper" is a difficult word to translate in this context, but "vergüten" definitely doesn't fit (except it has a connection to metalworking in German I'm not aware of). It seems that "tempering" is translated to "Anlassen" in German (at least the wikipedia articles are interlinked this way), but I think that "anlassen" invokes the wrong associations here - it's more used to refer to starting your car etc. Therefore I'd use "härten" i.e. "to harden", which can still kind of be used to refer to virtues, I think.
    - I take the "man" as referring to people in general here (not specifically excluding women), therefore the translation to "der Mensch" instead of "ein Mann" etc.

    Some notes on your grammar:
    - It's always wegen + genitive case, i.e. "wegen der [Tugend]" in this case. Using durch (+ accusative case) is fine as well though.
    - "zerbrechen können wird" is future active, i.e. it translates to "will be able to break". "cannot be broken", i.e. present passive, is "kann nicht zerbrochen werden". I know it's complicated with "werden".
     
  7. LightSpectra

    LightSpectra me autem minui

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    I was kinda sleepy when I did that translation, now I've spotted at least four grammatical errors in my literal translation. Also, thank you for the help.
     
  8. metatron

    metatron unperson

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    You three are some experts... :mischief: :D
    I want to meddle, too, yay! :)

    How so?
    That matters?
    You're right. This is the problem with the sentence - the only one imo - and i don't see any solution either.
    "Vergüten" is the best one can do, i guess. But it's much more narrow than to temper and sounds pretentious to people who live under a non-gray sky.
    The sentence is about toughness not hardness. An indicator that it's not supposed be a mini-lecture in metallurgy.
    Quenching =/= tempering.
    Tempering does make steel tougher, not harder.
    Why not stick with "man" (german) or "der Mensch"? Why would you want to translate that with "der Mann"?
    Dude, that's active. :)
    Passive would be "zerbrochen werden können wird" ... i guess. :blush:

    @spectra: In German we don't use passive as a means of style as much as it's done in English. A future passive makes you sound like a clerk at city hall and one with "können" in it is completely weird.

    Allways the crosspost! :)
    You see 4?

    "Man sollte wie Eisen seien: vergütet mit Tugend, die wegen keiner Widrigkeit zerbrechen können wird."

    That's only two. And that sentence would be correct. It's mediocre in style, but anything is really. I could have offered you another suggestion (probably going for "an keiner Widrigkeit zerbrechen wird") so you'd have 4 gimp sentences.
     
  9. Leoreth

    Leoreth Friend Next Door Moderator

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    Thanks for pointing the voice silliness out, I mixed that up for no sensible reason.

    Are you okay with "vergüten", metatron? Translating "to temper" correctly seems to be the most difficult aspect of that sentence.
     
  10. LightSpectra

    LightSpectra me autem minui

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    Thank you for the help. :)

    When I re-looked over that sentence, I thought "seien" was wrong because that's the imperative form of "sein", not the indicative. But I guess that's alright since this is a maxim?
     
  11. metatron

    metatron unperson

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    How should i know? :D

    Vergüten is the literal translation. The German term (in it's metallurgic sense) is probably way less known than the English one. That's bad luck but i don't see how we could do anything about it.
    If we go for a more general term we allways loose some of the meanings of tempering (abhärten vs. mäßigen vs. the idea of some protective layer being formed).
    No, you were right (and wrong before). It has to be "sein" of course. I completely overlooked that. I'm sorry. Should have noticed it when Leoreth corrected it.
     
  12. Uncle Anton

    Uncle Anton Lighthorseman

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    1. Walk up to physically attractive German woman.
    2. Thrust hips in her direction whilst repeatedly yelling "Sprechen Sie Bang-Bang??"
    3. ????
    4. PROFIT
     
  13. Gigaz

    Gigaz civoholic

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    Aurelie, so klappt das nie. Du erwartest viel zu viel, die Deutschen flirten sehr subtil. :p

    (Refrain of a well-known german pop song)
     
  14. Uncle Anton

    Uncle Anton Lighthorseman

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    Not Rammstein I assume? :D

    Truth be told, the only times that it was ever said in public was between members of the tour group I was in at the time, and I don't think anyone actually took it seriously or was blatant enough to actually use it as a legitimate pickup line. :lol:

    I remember one of the girls in our group actually got thrown out of a pub in Ireland for hitting on another tourist whilst wearing a rubby ducky pool floaty that she'd bought earlier on in the day.

    Spoiler :
    Unsuspecting Tourist - "What the?"

    Response in mock Irish Accent - "It's a Flirtation Device!!!"
     
  15. Leoreth

    Leoreth Friend Next Door Moderator

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    You bring up a point here that showed me again how complicated German is :crazyeye:

    It's "sein", but that's because the conjugated verb in that clause is "sollte". Now it's sort of an imperative of sein, only expressed with "sollen + infinititve" in subjunctive ("Konjunktiv II" to be precise).
     
  16. Lord Emsworth

    Lord Emsworth Emperor

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    No. Much better.

    Link to video.
     
  17. metatron

    metatron unperson

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    Dude...they are roughly as bad as Rammstein. Same puke-factor, really.
     
  18. Lord Emsworth

    Lord Emsworth Emperor

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    Let me consider that for a second

    ... uhmm ...

    No.

    :D
     
  19. The_J

    The_J Say No 2 Net Validations Retired Moderator Supporter

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  20. Leoreth

    Leoreth Friend Next Door Moderator

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    Whether you like Wir Sind Helden's (using apostrophe-s on an already plural world feels awful) music or not - they're absolutely authentic people who live the music they make. I once shortly visited them in their flat share in Berlin (they were neighbors to the aunt of a friend of mine). Admittedly, they were only semi-famous at that point ("Denkmal" had just been released iirc), but it was amazing how friendly they welcomed some teenagers they didn't know and who just ringed at their door.

    And it's always fun to shout "Hol den Vorschlaghammer!" to the chorus while drunk. :D
     

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