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[Development] Alternative Map during 1.17

Discussion in 'Rhye's and Fall - Dawn of Civilization' started by Leoreth, Jun 9, 2019.

  1. Leoreth

    Leoreth 心の怪盗団 Moderator

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    I am making a new thread for developing the new map during 1.17, because the previous one was quite long and I do not want to repurpose the suggestions thread for my development updates.

    That said, here are some updates:
    - fixed the course of the Po river
    - the mediterranean art style for islands is more similar to plains
    - reduced the Lagoon defense modifier
    - new terrain type: Salt Flats (in Maghreb, Botswana, Bolivia, Arabia, Tharr desert, Australia)
    - new terrain type: Salt Lake (for all salt lakes on the map)
    - Camels provide health
    - most units cannot enter desert and tundra
    - Desert, Tundra, Jungle, Rainforest, Marsh is now generally shown as "impassable for most units" and only units than can enter them are listed as "can enter X"
    - Floodplains and Oasis make desert passable
    - cultural control allows entering impassable terrain
    - new terrain type: Atoll (not placed on the map yet)

    Suggestions can still go in the existing suggestions thread.
     
  2. soul-breathing

    soul-breathing Chieftain

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    Maybe it's more historical that units decrease strength every turn when pass desert/tundra out of cultural border(just like Russia UP), instead of impassable.
     
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  3. TJDowling

    TJDowling Chieftain

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    Excellent! As much as it is entertaining to explore all of Africa and Eurasia before the Medieval Era is is exceedingly unrealistic!

    Edit: So are these changes merged into the /map git?
     
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2019
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  4. KeeperOT7Keys

    KeeperOT7Keys did nothing wrong

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    probably AI would have very bad time with it
     
  5. Imp. Knoedel

    Imp. Knoedel Knoedel Imperator Satani Filius Augustus Nooborum

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    What about Snow?

    There is this sci-fi space mod called Final Frontier that shipped with BtS with terrain features like Black Holes and Super Novas that damage units that enter them. I can confirm that the AI is indeed not able to deal with that, and setting a unit to auto-explore in that mod is sending it to certain death.
     
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  6. TJDowling

    TJDowling Chieftain

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    And what about Arctic Ocean/Coast any limitations there? Perhaps Industrial Era ships and beyond with an exception for Viking Longship (and Umiaks if ever an Inuit civ is added).
     
  7. Leoreth

    Leoreth 心の怪盗団 Moderator

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    Yes.

    Isn't Snow already impassable?

    Not sure, I have to think about it.
     
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  8. Leoreth

    Leoreth 心の怪盗団 Moderator

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    Update: I have rebased the map branch to the latest develop, if you're using the branch make sure to force pull or delete it before pulling again.
     
  9. TJDowling

    TJDowling Chieftain

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    I'm not seeing the new terrain types in WB, how do you force pull/delete the branch? Tried a fetch and pull but it doesn't seem to be working.
     
  10. soul-breathing

    soul-breathing Chieftain

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    Then, how about that military units can enter Desert/Tundra in their own culture border, or through roads in terra nullius? If simply forbid military units enter desert, then Mongolia cannot enter Middle East from Xinjiang.
    Certainly, settlers and workers can enter any Desert/Tundra as usual.


    OK, I've seen that it already can enter in own culture border.
     
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2019
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  11. Leoreth

    Leoreth 心の怪盗団 Moderator

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    Here is a guide to delete branches with Tortoise.
     
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  12. TJDowling

    TJDowling Chieftain

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    Thanks. Somehow I still always manage to find myself in a situation where I have to delete the whole mod and start again though.
     
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  13. Leoreth

    Leoreth 心の怪盗団 Moderator

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    New update:
    - changed African lakes to salt lakes where appropriate
    - changed Mexico City and New Orleans tiles into Lagoons
    - added Rare Earth in Siberia
    - Canada terrain changes: placed Moorland, Taiga and Steppe, based largely on @MacAurther 's suggestions (I decided not to move Lake Winnipeg 1W as suggested, and in turn ignored most river changes because they seemed to be cascading adjustments for that. If you still have river suggestions that leave the Canadian lakes in place let me know)
    - Ice is now also impassable to most units
    - improved how Steppe layers over other terrains (should yield a nicer looking border between Steppe and Plains/Grass)
    - changed Polynesian islands to Atolls where appropriate and placed a Lagoon at Pohnpei based on @Steb 's suggestions
     
  14. Leoreth

    Leoreth 心の怪盗団 Moderator

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    New update: terrain adjustments in Italy

    Spoiler :
    Civ4ScreenShot0000.JPG

    - more grassland in northern Italy
    - moved Wheat 2W to be more accessible to various cities
    - changed Sheep in Lecce to Olives
    - moved Clam near Venice 1N so the spot 1N of Naples cannot reach three Clams
    - added Coal in southern Sardinia
    - added a Forest on Corsica
    - placed a Marsh on the Venice Lagoon that disappears later to block it during the Classical era
     
  15. Leoreth

    Leoreth 心の怪盗団 Moderator

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    Here's my current Japan which I have not pushed yet because I feel the need for some input:
    Spoiler :
    Civ4ScreenShot0002.JPG Civ4ScreenShot0001.JPG

    I put some research into important resource locations and tried to represent them while also balancing the islands regarding historical settlement patterns:
    - extended the range of the Kiso and Tone rivers
    - moved gold on Kyushu 1N to make Kagoshima more feasible
    - moved whale near Kyushu 1S to give Kagoshima a benefit over Nagasaki (which can reach pearls instead)
    - moved silver from northern Honshu to western Honshu to represent the Iwami mine and make the north less appealing
    - moved tea from the new silver location to Kii peninsula to free the tile and represent Uji (traditional centre of Japanese tea production)
    - moved dye from Hokkaido to Shikoku to represent Tokushima (traditional centre of Japanese indigo production) and make the north less appealing
    - moved silk from northern Honshu to Shikoku (no particular reason) and Gunma prefecture in central Honshu (traditional centre of Japanese silk production) to make the north less appealing
    - placed coal in northern Honshu, mostly because of the Mogami mine, even though it is slightly out of position for that one
    - placed rare earths on Hokkaido, to give Japan access to the resource and facilitate development of Hokkaido in the late game

    The guiding principle was that there should not be too many resources in northern Honshu and Hokkaido so ahistorically early settlement is not encouraged. This is why I focused on Coal and Rare Earths which only become available and important at the same time that these regions were settled. Not pictured is also a Wheat (or maybe Cow) resource that will spawn on Hokkaido later.

    Most of that I am pretty decided on, what I want to discuss is the reshaping of Hokkaido I tried to do here and that I am not sure about. Hokkaido is kind of hard to deal with because of its pointy shape that is hard to represent in the game at this scale, and also because Japan is at the edge of the used Robinson projection map and therefore somewhat distorted. On the Robinson projection, Japan is quite concave and curves inward towards Asia because that's what's happening at the edges of Robinson projected maps, and therefore looks quite different than when you just look up rectangular maps of Japan that are usually Mercator projections centered on Japan (which has little distortion at that scale). Still, for consistency with adjacent landmasses, the Robinson projection needs to be honoured here.

    I tried to represent the fact here that on a Robinson map, most of the territory of Hokkaido appears directly above Honshu, besides the isthmus that almost connects them. There's one diagonally connected tile in the west to evoke one "pointy end" while I let islands do the work in the east. To make this possible, I shrunk Sakhalin by one tile, which is inaccurate but acceptable since that island is not very important. A major downside I can see is that the peak now blocks access to one tile, but moving it 1E also seems wrong.

    Here is a simple alternative proposal by soul-breathing, and here is another one by merijn_v1, if you want comparisons. The status quo isn't out of the question either.
     
  16. 1SDAN

    1SDAN Brother Lady

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    Soul's Hokkaido is really aesthetically pleasing.
     
  17. ozqar

    ozqar Chieftain

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    About Italy: The appenines are quite verdant, changing plains for grassland in the hills west of the wine, would be nice. Conversely, the dry vegetation extends continuously to France on the western coast, so I would put grasslands on the coastal tiles west of the stone and (less convinced, since it's hills) west of the marble. The hill tile in Sardinia (connection to mainland) should be forested too.

    About Japan: If you want to discourage northern Hokkaido, shouldn't that whale be out of reach of the northeastern tip of the island, and instead be either only available for Kamchatka, or available for the Sapporo location?
     
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2019
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  18. Leoreth

    Leoreth 心の怪盗団 Moderator

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    Yeah, I went back to look at it and it's basically accomplishing what I was trying without complicating things. I am including it for now.

    Right, moved 1E for now, I don't think it should be within reach of Hokkaido.

    New update:
    - adjusted terrain in Japan (above changes except with soul-breathings Hokkaido)
    - adjusted terrain in Great Britain (see below)
    - salt in Brittany (fleur de sel)
    - replaced Grassland in Iceland with Moorland

    Terrain changes in Great Britain:
    Spoiler :
    Civ4ScreenShot0003.JPG

    - added a peak in Scotland
    - swapped Horses in Ireland with Cows in England
    - added the Trent river
    - added marshes in East Anglia to represent The Fens, to open up during the Industrial era
    - changed two tiles to moorland in the Scottish highlands
    - changed two tiles to moorland in Ireland to reduce overall available food
    - moved North Sea oil north to be reachable from Scotland only

    I am even considering removing the Wheat from the initial map, to be replaced by a resource spawning later in the game (wheat or potato). London wasn't really that big in the Middle Ages and it should only become really large later in the game.
     
  19. soul-breathing

    soul-breathing Chieftain

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    So how about add Shannon River in Ireland? And maybe add potato in Ireland after Industrial era. Maybe instead of sheep or cow?

    Also another question, Aral Sea is a salt lake, but in the map the tiles provide 2 foods.
     
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2019
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  20. ozqar

    ozqar Chieftain

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    About Britain: I can't discern the moorlands from the grasslands, is it possible to make the color difference more noticeable? The mountain in Scotland looks really bad (aesthetically), there's nothing in real life there to justify it - sure, the highlands are there, but they're really not that high, and it's more like hills with moorland or tundra that we should have there. Perhaps you can move the Scottish oil much farther north so that it's only reachable from Aberdeen (since that's where scotland's oil industry is located). I'd also move other resources (not sure which though) to make Edinburgh or Glasgow interesting from the early game.
     
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