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DG2 RolePlay Replay Challenge

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Demo Game II: Role Play & Games' started by DaveShack, Jan 9, 2008.

  1. DaveShack

    DaveShack Inventor Retired Moderator

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    Location:
    Arizona, USA (it's a dry heat)
    While we wait for a possible new DemoGame, here's a challenge:

    Download the creation save for DG2, and play it with the following stipulations:

    • Try to play the game as spoiler-free as possible. Don't look in the DG2 threads for information, and do your best to play it like a new game.
    • Keep screenshots and notes.
    • If possible, write your notes in a role playing style.
    • Post your notes and screenshots in the spoiler thread according to game date and/or events. If you've ever played a GOTM, you know what this means.
    • Try to play the game in the style of the civ you're playing, in this case the Mongols. No penalty for playing non-Mongol style, but the main objective is the written notes, not the game play.
    • Usual honor system on cheating, no purposeful reloads and no peeking in the associated spoiler thread.
     
  2. dutchfire

    dutchfire Deity Retired Moderator

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    1.74 + 3.13 or 1.61?

    I'm looking forward to this one :D
     
  3. Provolution

    Provolution Sage of Quatronia

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    Please convert it to 1.74 + 3.13, since 1.61 does not fly anymore, thank you.
     
  4. DaveShack

    DaveShack Inventor Retired Moderator

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    Doesn't it convert when you load it?
     
  5. Provolution

    Provolution Sage of Quatronia

    Joined:
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    No, it does not.
     
  6. dutchfire

    dutchfire Deity Retired Moderator

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    If it's going to be converted, could there be a copy with the latest HOF mod loaded too, if it's not too much of a hassle? :bowdown:
     
  7. DaveShack

    DaveShack Inventor Retired Moderator

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    Location:
    Arizona, USA (it's a dry heat)
    On second thought, why don't we bag the starting save, and just play with the same settings.

    Leader: Random
    Opponents: Random
    Climate: Temperate
    Sea level: Medium
    Game Speed: Normal
    Size: Standard
    Difficulty Level: Prince
    Map Script: "Normal" Continents
    Barbarians: Normal
    Lock Modified Assets

    I've gotta go to work, and since the objective is good commentary not good gameplay, doesn't really matter if we all play the same save, right? So go for it! You might even get a HoF worthy game as a bonus. :D
     
  8. DaveShack

    DaveShack Inventor Retired Moderator

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    Obviously if we play different saves then you don't really need the LMA flag or to avoid spoilers.:hammer2:

    Edit: Creating on the fly is hazardous. :lol: Forgot to mention, if Prince is too high a level, play something lower. If it's too low, play something higher. :crazyeye:
     
  9. dutchfire

    dutchfire Deity Retired Moderator

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    Well, I'll try the original anyway, I'm fairly positive I can beat our time. :D
     
  10. DaveShack

    DaveShack Inventor Retired Moderator

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    Or play the original in 1.61, if you still have that version. :D
     
  11. Cyc

    Cyc Looking for the door...

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    Like to try this but I don't have my CIV2 with me.
     
  12. dutchfire

    dutchfire Deity Retired Moderator

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    I'm currently in 740 AD, and everything is going fine :D
     
  13. DaveShack

    DaveShack Inventor Retired Moderator

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    Arizona, USA (it's a dry heat)
    Things went the same way they always do for me. Think of a cool side project, then a ton of bricks lands on me from RL. :crazyeye:

    Still planning to play. :)
     
  14. dutchfire

    dutchfire Deity Retired Moderator

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    I've played quite far already (1620 AD), but the game is slowing down now, I might play on later. I'll post my spoiler so far though, it has been an interesting game. My plan didn't work out as well as planned, but I should be able to win if I play concentrated. I'll take some screenies and perhaps post a save if someone is interested.

    Spoiler :
    Don't look if you're still planning to play :)
    Spoiler :

    Okay, we're going to play in a mongol theme, so the obvious choice for a victory condition is conquest. Besides, we've already done spaceship, we could have done diplomacy too and cultural is hardly interesting on this map in my opinion. So it's either conquest or domination. We'll see how it goes later.

    But as you'll probably point out right away, we are going to reach the other continent. To do that, we need Astronomy. It's an expensive tech, so how are we going to get it quickly? Lightbulbing is the answer. According to this excellent article (http://www.civfanatics.com/civ4/strategy/gp_tech_pref.php), Paper and Philosophy have a priority over Astronomy. Therefor, I need to skip Theology, Civil Service and Meditation, to allow my Great Scientists to lightbulb Astronomy. I will use 2 scientists for Astronomy, and I will try to use one for Optics too.

    Skipping Civil Service gives us a problem though, no Macemen. I will try to use Keshiks, swordsmen and catapults instead of macemen. Besides, I only need to have our continent finished when I get Astronomy. I will then need to conquer the other continent with these troops too, but I will probably try to get Civil Service immediately after Astronomy, so I can take some macemen too.

    Of course, this plan is rather ambitious, and there's a decent chance it will fail completely, or will not work out as intended. That's the risk I have to take.

    My economy will be important, as I need to research quite a lot of techs to get sailing across the ocean. I will raze anything but the capitals, to avoid total breakdown. I also want to use the Oracle on Metal Casting or Machinery. Growing some Great Scientists will also be vital, so I will need to prevent a Great Prophet being born from the Oracle. I'll use the capital as the oracle city, and my second city will grow the scientist. I'm also hoping to capture some good wonders in foreign lands.

    Now, it's time to play the game.

    4000 BC
    Settle dutchfire in place, start worker, start agriculture.
    Scout start exploring west.

    3840 BC
    Scout pops map, meets Napoleon

    3760 BC
    Scout pops scout, 1 scout explores north, 1 east (circling around the capital to find city spots).

    3640 BC
    Agriculture - Mining

    3560 BC
    Eastern scout pops hut for 93 gold.

    3480 BC
    Northern scout dies to a lion

    3400 BC
    Worker - Warrior

    3360 BC
    Mining - Bronze Working
    Scout pops 49 gold.

    3200 BC
    Worker completes Corn farm

    3160 BC
    Worker -> mine plains hill 1 S of the capital

    3080 BC
    capital grows, completes warrior, starts warrior, focus on growth

    2880 BC
    capital warrior - warrior

    2840 BC
    Meet Bismarck

    2800 BC
    Bronze Working - Mysticism
    Worker starts premining

    2720 BC
    Another warrior built, another started

    2560 BC
    Enough warriors for now, it's time for a settler. The grassland hill mine on a river completes just in time to get the hammers where they're needed. Settler due in 8 (!)

    2520 BC
    Mysticism - Polytheism (no meditation for me please). Let's get that Oracle!

    2240 BC
    Settler - Settler (due in 9)

    2200 BC
    Ice2k4 settled 4 N of dutchfire. That's one SE of Riversight for you veterans :D. It will have cows, 2 floodplains and a gold, plus some hills for production. It starts with a obelisk.

    2120 BC
    Polytheism - Pottery

    2000 BC
    Meet Julius

    1880 BC
    Pottery - Priesthood
    dutchfire: Settler - Worker Both are due in 5
    Revolt to slavery while the settler is walking

    1840 BC
    Whip Ice2k4 for an obelisk

    1800 BC
    Ice2k4 starts warrior

    1720 BC
    DaveShack founded (Coppertown location), starts worker.

    1640 BC
    Big turn
    Complete Priesthood, start Writing (7)
    dutchfire finishes worker (chopping), starts Oracle (15)
    Ice2k4 finishes warrior, starts worker

    1360 BC
    Writing - Iron Working

    1320 BC
    Whip Worker in Ice2k4, overflow maximised for library -> great scientist

    1200 BC
    Oracle finished, pick Metal Casting
    dutchfire starts Forge

    1160 BC
    dutchfire gets it's second farm, taking the place of a forest. That city needs a lot of food to balance the mines!

    1120 BC
    DaveShack finishes worker, starts obelisk
    Napoleon founds Lyons in possibly the worst possible location, 1 tile from the coast. I'll raze it thank you very much.

    925 BC
    Iron Working - Animal Husbandry. How could I forget to get cow pastures?

    900 BC
    Finish library in Ice2k4 (whipped), let's get some scientists!

    875 BC
    dutchfire: forge->barracks, it's time to start fighting soon!

    800 BC
    Start on alphabet

    625 BC
    War is declared on Napoleon

    600 BC
    Lyons is razed

    425 BC
    Alphabet is in

    375 BC
    DaveShack starts another settler, due for Equus Aurum surroundings.

    350 BC
    Rheims razed

    200 BC
    Orleans razed
    The first axeman is started

    175 BC
    First GS born in Ice2k4
    Ravensfire settled

    50 BC
    Maths - Construction

    50 AD
    Paris, and France, falls. Now known as Joe Harker

    250 AD
    Declare on Julius Caesar

    350 AD
    Raze Neapolis
    Declare on Bismarck

    375 AD
    Construction - Currency
    Raze Frankfurt

    450 AD
    First catapults completed

    500 AD
    Cologne razed

    540 AD
    Cumae razed

    620 AD
    Currency - Code of Laws
    Essen razed

    640 AD
    Second Great Scientist is born in Ice2k4, only 1 to go.

    660 AD
    Julius has about 6 chariots in his next city, so I'll focus on Germany first.
    So I pillage Bismarck's horses.

    700 AD
    Compass - Machinery

    740 AD
    Bismarck has construction, and gets the Music GA. Time to die
    I capture Berlin (Parthenon + Pyramids, nice!), and make peace for Calendar.
    Berlin renamed Ori
    Revolt to Representation

    820 AD
    Romans settle Ravenna next to my swordsman, thanks for the free gold!

    880 AD
    Raze Antium

    960 AD
    Machinery - Compass (quick researching thanks to the captured gold)
    Pisae razed

    1000 AD
    Julius lands 4 chariots near Joe Harker (Paris). Whow, I've underestimated the AI, it has managed to threaten me once, in 5000 years.
    Of course, I capture Rome the same turn. I keep it, I'll need harbours later to build ships. The upkeep will be murderous though. I name it Lockesdonkey.
    I raze Dortmund the same turn.

    1020 AD
    Raze a barbarian city in the centre of the continent.

    1040 AD
    Compass in, time to bulb.
    Bulb optics, bulb 1 scientist to Astronomy. Research set to Civil Service.
    Nobody settled, in the west.

    1050 AD
    Hamburg razed.

    1060 AD
    My economy is hurting so bad that I need to build money in some cities.

    1100 AD
    Third Great Scientist is born in Joe Harker (Paris), and bulbs Astronomy!
    Bismarck dies.
    Can't declare war on Julius :mad:.

    1130 AD
    Raze Rome's last city. This continent was fun while it lasted.

    1150 AD
    Civil Service -> Monarchy
    Revolt to Bureaucracy

    1230 AD
    Meet Huayna, he doesn't have Longbows yet, or Maces!
    I also meet Tokugawa, who does have Longbows, and who even has optics. He's clearly beating up Huayna. He'll be the first target.

    1260 AD
    Declare on Tokugawa, and land 6 units.

    1270 AD
    Raze Nagoya. I fear these Longbowmen will be though.

    1290 AD
    Raze Nara
    Meet Montezuma, who's at war with Tokugawa too :D.
    He's more advanced than Huayna, but less advanced than Tokugawa.

    1310 AD
    Monarchy - Feudalism (thanks Representation)

    1320 AD
    Raze Satsuma

    1430 AD
    The war is not going very well. I revolt to Police State.

    1440 AD
    Kyoto finally falls. It's time to head north, and hurt Montezuma too.

    1480 AD
    Tokyo razed, Tokugawa is feeling the pain now.

    1505 AD
    I get a Great Artist in Ori (Berlin). Great. I settle him, so he'll give me some money.

    1515 AD
    Japan dies. Time to go after Huayna too.

    1570 AD
    Texcoco razed, finally another tough nut cracked.

    1620 AD
    After razing two of Monty's cities in one turn, I make peace for engineering. The WW is getting too high.

     
  15. ice2k4

    ice2k4 Emperor

    Joined:
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    Location:
    Brooklyn, New York
    Honored that you would name a city after me. :)
     
  16. dutchfire

    dutchfire Deity Retired Moderator

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    Honored that you read through the entire text :)
     
  17. dutchfire

    dutchfire Deity Retired Moderator

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    Spoiler full spoiler :
    Okay, we're going to play in a mongol theme, so the obvious choice for a victory condition is conquest. Besides, we've

    already done spaceship, we could have done diplomacy too and cultural is hardly interesting on this map in my opinion. So

    it's either conquest or domination. We'll see how it goes later.

    But as you'll probably point out right away, we are going to reach the other continent. To do that, we need Astronomy. It's

    an expensive tech, so how are we going to get it quickly? Lightbulbing is the answer. According to this excellent article

    (http://www.civfanatics.com/civ4/strategy/gp_tech_pref.php), Paper and Philosophy have a priority over Astronomy. Therefor, I

    need to skip Theology, Civil Service and Meditation, to allow my Great Scientists to lightbulb Astronomy. I will use 2

    scientists for Astronomy, and I will try to use one for Optics too.

    Skipping Civil Service gives us a problem though, no Macemen. I will try to use Keshiks, swordsmen and catapults instead of

    macemen. Besides, I only need to have our continent finished when I get Astronomy. I will then need to conquer the other

    continent with these troops too, but I will probably try to get Civil Service immediately after Astronomy, so I can take some

    macemen too.

    Of course, this plan is rather ambitious, and there's a decent chance it will fail completely, or will not work out as

    intended. That's the risk I have to take.

    My economy will be important, as I need to research quite a lot of techs to get sailing across the ocean. I will raze

    anything but the capitals, to avoid total breakdown. I also want to use the Oracle on Metal Casting or Machinery. Growing

    some Great Scientists will also be vital, so I will need to prevent a Great Prophet being born from the Oracle. I'll use the

    capital as the oracle city, and my second city will grow the scientist. I'm also hoping to capture some good wonders in

    foreign lands.

    Now, it's time to play the game.

    4000 BC
    Settle dutchfire in place, start worker, start agriculture.
    Scout start exploring west.

    3840 BC
    Scout pops map, meets Napoleon

    3760 BC
    Scout pops scout, 1 scout explores north, 1 east (circling around the capital to find city spots).

    3640 BC
    Agriculture - Mining

    3560 BC
    Eastern scout pops hut for 93 gold.

    3480 BC
    Northern scout dies to a lion

    3400 BC
    Worker - Warrior

    3360 BC
    Mining - Bronze Working
    Scout pops 49 gold.

    3200 BC
    Worker completes Corn farm

    3160 BC
    Worker -> mine plains hill 1 S of the capital

    3080 BC
    capital grows, completes warrior, starts warrior, focus on growth

    2880 BC
    capital warrior - warrior

    2840 BC
    Meet Bismarck

    2800 BC
    Bronze Working - Mysticism
    Worker starts premining

    2720 BC
    Another warrior built, another started

    2560 BC
    Enough warriors for now, it's time for a settler. The grassland hill mine on a river completes just in time to get the

    hammers where they're needed. Settler due in 8 (!)

    2520 BC
    Mysticism - Polytheism (no meditation for me please). Let's get that Oracle!

    2240 BC
    Settler - Settler (due in 9)

    2200 BC
    Ice2k4 settled 4 N of dutchfire. That's one SE of Riversight for you veterans :D. It will have cows, 2 floodplains and a

    gold, plus some hills for production. It starts with a obelisk.

    2120 BC
    Polytheism - Pottery

    2000 BC
    Meet Julius

    1880 BC
    Pottery - Priesthood
    dutchfire: Settler - Worker Both are due in 5
    Revolt to slavery while the settler is walking

    1840 BC
    Whip Ice2k4 for an obelisk

    1800 BC
    Ice2k4 starts warrior

    1720 BC
    DaveShack founded (Coppertown location), starts worker.

    1640 BC
    Big turn
    Complete Priesthood, start Writing (7)
    dutchfire finishes worker (chopping), starts Oracle (15)
    Ice2k4 finishes warrior, starts worker

    1360 BC
    Writing - Iron Working

    1320 BC
    Whip Worker in Ice2k4, overflow maximised for library -> great scientist

    1200 BC
    Oracle finished, pick Metal Casting
    dutchfire starts Forge

    1160 BC
    dutchfire gets it's second farm, taking the place of a forest. That city needs a lot of food to balance the mines!

    1120 BC
    DaveShack finishes worker, starts obelisk
    Napoleon founds Lyons in possibly the worst possible location, 1 tile from the coast. I'll raze it thank you very much.

    925 BC
    Iron Working - Animal Husbandry. How could I forget to get cow pastures?

    900 BC
    Finish library in Ice2k4 (whipped), let's get some scientists!

    875 BC
    dutchfire: forge->barracks, it's time to start fighting soon!

    800 BC
    Start on alphabet

    625 BC
    War is declared on Napoleon

    600 BC
    Lyons is razed

    425 BC
    Alphabet is in

    375 BC
    DaveShack starts another settler, due for Equus Aurum surroundings.

    350 BC
    Rheims razed

    200 BC
    Orleans razed
    The first axeman is started

    175 BC
    First GS born in Ice2k4
    Ravensfire settled

    50 BC
    Maths - Construction

    50 AD
    Paris, and France, falls. Now known as Joe Harker

    250 AD
    Declare on Julius Caesar

    350 AD
    Raze Neapolis
    Declare on Bismarck

    375 AD
    Construction - Currency
    Raze Frankfurt

    450 AD
    First catapults completed

    500 AD
    Cologne razed

    540 AD
    Cumae razed

    620 AD
    Currency - Code of Laws
    Essen razed

    640 AD
    Second Great Scientist is born in Ice2k4, only 1 to go.

    660 AD
    Julius has about 6 chariots in his next city, so I'll focus on Germany first.
    So I pillage Bismarck's horses.

    700 AD
    Compass - Machinery

    740 AD
    Bismarck has construction, and gets the Music GA. Time to die
    I capture Berlin (Parthenon + Pyramids, nice!), and make peace for Calendar.
    Berlin renamed Ori
    Revolt to Representation

    820 AD
    Romans settle Ravenna next to my swordsman, thanks for the free gold!

    880 AD
    Raze Antium

    960 AD
    Machinery - Compass (quick researching thanks to the captured gold)
    Pisae razed

    1000 AD
    Julius lands 4 chariots near Joe Harker (Paris). Whow, I've underestimated the AI, it has managed to threaten me once, in

    5000 years.
    Of course, I capture Rome the same turn. I keep it, I'll need harbours later to build ships. The upkeep will be murderous

    though. I name it Lockesdonkey.
    I raze Dortmund the same turn.

    1020 AD
    Raze a barbarian city in the centre of the continent.

    1040 AD
    Compass in, time to bulb.
    Bulb optics, bulb 1 scientist to Astronomy. Research set to Civil Service.
    Nobody settled, in the west.

    1050 AD
    Hamburg razed.

    1060 AD
    My economy is hurting so bad that I need to build money in some cities.

    1100 AD
    Third Great Scientist is born in Joe Harker (Paris), and bulbs Astronomy!
    Bismarck dies.
    Can't declare war on Julius :mad:.

    1130 AD
    Raze Rome's last city. This continent was fun while it lasted.

    1150 AD
    Civil Service -> Monarchy
    Revolt to Bureaucracy

    1230 AD
    Meet Huayna, he doesn't have Longbows yet, or Maces!
    I also meet Tokugawa, who does have Longbows, and who even has optics. He's clearly beating up Huayna. He'll be the first

    target.

    1260 AD
    Declare on Tokugawa, and land 6 units.

    1270 AD
    Raze Nagoya. I fear these Longbowmen will be though.

    1290 AD
    Raze Nara
    Meet Montezuma, who's at war with Tokugawa too :D.
    He's more advanced than Huayna, but less advanced than Tokugawa.

    1310 AD
    Monarchy - Feudalism (thanks Representation)

    1320 AD
    Raze Satsuma

    1430 AD
    The war is not going very well. I revolt to Police State.

    1440 AD
    Kyoto finally falls. It's time to head north, and hurt Montezuma too.

    1480 AD
    Tokyo razed, Tokugawa is feeling the pain now.

    1505 AD
    I get a Great Artist in Ori (Berlin). Great. I settle him, so he'll give me some money.

    1515 AD
    Japan dies. Time to go after Huayna too.

    1570 AD
    Texcoco razed, finally another tough nut cracked.

    1620 AD
    After razing two of Monty's cities in one turn, I make peace for engineering. The WW is getting too high.

    1635 AD
    Raze Tiwanuka, quite an easy fight. I had been landing macemen on a hill next to the city for some time, and together with

    catapults, it was an easy fight.

    1650 AD
    Ori's (Berlin's) borders expand, giving me furs and ivory. I needed that! That's +4 Happiness for every city with a market.

    1660 AD
    Discover silver in Lockesdonkey, nice.
    I just noticed I haven't build the Forbidden Palace yet :blush:

    1665 AD
    Raze Cuzco, take that Huayna!

    1675 AD
    Raze Ollayantambo (I am pretty sure that isn't the correct spelling). A fringe city near the tundra.
    I also declare on Montezuma again, which brings back WW.

    1700 AD
    Raze Vitcos, another Tundra city. Another 150 gold in raze money.

    1705 AD
    Machu Pichu razed, Huayna is coming down fast.

    1715 AD
    Forbidden Palace comes online, but saves only a couple of bucks. 100 + in unit upkeep!

    1725 AD
    Vilcabamba is razed, the south of the island is cleared of incans. Let's move up.

    1730 AD
    Vilcas razed.

    1735 AD
    Former Japanese Aztec Osaka razed.

    1745 AD
    Raze Huamanga, the last Incan city. Huayna is dead, only Montezuma to go.

    1750 AD
    Now Huayna is dead, I get a lot less WW. It's now 4 in my capital, it was 11!

    1755 AD
    Tlateco falls, just 1 city left!

    1760 AD
    I start halting unit production, new units will take 11 turns to sail, and a couple to move to Nobody's docks, so they won't

    make it in time.

    1770 AD
    Cities to wealth production, research 100%, trying to score some extra techs.

    1785 AD
    CONQUEST VICTORY! The last Aztec is dead. I made it, a quick intercontinental war, that lasted too long.

    1790 AD
    Victory is official now.


    Headlines:
    4000 BC - dutchfire founded
    2200 BC - Ice2k4 founded
    1720 BC - DaveShack founded
    1240 BC - Oracle built
    625 BC - First war declared, on Napoleon
    200 BC - First GS
    175 BC - Ravensfire founded
    50 AD - France destroyed
    250 AD - Declare war on Julius Caesar
    350 AD - Declare war on Bismarck
    620 AD - Second GS
    1100 AD - Germany destroyed
    1090 AD - Third Great Scientist
    1130 AD - Rome destroyed
    1260 AD - Declare on Tokugawa
    1390 AD - Declare on Montezuma
    1515 AD - Japan destroyed
    1525 AD - Declare on Huayna Capac
    1745 AD - Inca destroyed
    1785 AD - Aztec destroyed

    My GNP graph is not funny, it's further from 0 than that of any other civ :)

    Cities built: 5
    Cities razed: 46
    If that ain't Mongolian!

    Units built: 146 Macemen, 41 Swordsmen, 33 Catapults, 24 Galleons, 14 Axemen, 10 War Elephants, 7 Crossbowmen, 5 Warriors, 5

    Keshiks, 2 Spearmen, 2 Chariots, 1 Galley, 1 Caravel
    Killed: 64 Archers, 51 Longbowmen, 43 Catapults, 29 Macemen, 21 Spearmen, 20 Axeman, 19 Knights, 14 Chariots, 13 Crossbowmen,

    10 Horse Archers, 10 Swordsmen, 10 Caravels, 9 Warriors, 9 Galleys, 9 Pikemen, 1 War Elephant, 1 Praetorian
    Lost: 89 Macemen, 33 Swordsmen, 25 Catapults, 10 Axemen, 6 Crossbowmen, 4 Galleons, 1 Keshik

    Score: 15355 :(


    Total play time - 7 hours 34 minutes
     
  18. dutchfire

    dutchfire Deity Retired Moderator

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    Location:
    -
    In hindsight, my plan didn't work out as well as planned, but it worked, so I'm not going to complain. My economy really took the toll, since I built just a few cottages, and a lot of mines. Pillage money really saved me, I even had some Keshiks just pillaging Cottages to pay for my war.

    Balancing unit/ship production was interesting, I had too few ships in the beginning (obviously), but depending on the current level of War Weariness, I either outproduced my shipping capabilities, or I had empty ships waiting on the shores.

    If this game shows anything, it is that the vanilla AI really sucks. I managed to get to Astronomy and launch an invasion with swords, cats, and later maces. They couldn't stop them, even though it was quite late in the game already. I didn't see a single gunpowder unit. If one of them had teched properly, and had gotten muskets, or rifles, it would all have been pretty much over. But they didn't manage to reach that level of technology before 1790 AD! The burning and pillaging hurt them a lot. What also strikes me is the sheer amount of units I had, compared to them. I managed to outproduce them by quite a lot, and only Montezuma really managed to build some useful units for counterattacking. The others were just building cats without support troops, or longbowmen.
     
  19. HUSch

    HUSch Secret-monger

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2005
    Messages:
    2,440
    Location:
    Germany
    Sry, i can't open the save; what kind of play is that? Which patch can/must i have?
     
  20. dutchfire

    dutchfire Deity Retired Moderator

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2006
    Messages:
    14,106
    Location:
    -
    1.61 no mods
     

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