DG4 Discussion - Const: Article H

[zorven]

Our current Article H based upon the DG2 Constitution:

H. No person shall hold multiple positions of leadership (President, Department Leader, Judiciary, Provincial Governor) simultaneously.

 

[Bootstoots]

This one should be kept.

 

[GenMarshall]

Agreed. But one can Hold multiple Deputy possitions .

 

[zorven]

I would rather see that you can only hold one leader or deputy position.

 

[GenMarshall]

Originally posted by zorven
I would rather see that you can only hold one leader or deputy position.

Well that is one I can agree to, To a point. I would rather see that a persion can only hold one Deputy possition and one Leader Possition. But the persion can hold a max of 2 Deputy possitions.

 

[Donovan Zoi]

It all depends on the participation level, but I would like to see no crossover in any office. If you are a leader in one department, you cannot be a deputy of another department.

Once again, I believe that the specifics are better off reserved for the CoL. To me, this wording is sufficient as-is.

 

[zorven]

Under the current wording, a person who is a leader and a deputy would have to resign one position as soon as they would have to be an "acting leader" for the deputy position. This would then cause a vacancy in one department or the other. Why not just limit a person to one department to begin with? At least that way we would know where the vacancy would be and can try to fill it before it is needed.

 

[Donovan Zoi]

I agree with this concept, zorven, and I hope it will come to pass. I just don't know if we need to mention deputies in the Constitution. To me the current wording covers the basic tenet that one cannot hold two leadership positions at once.

Also, I am starting to think that if a leader ever vacates his position, then a mid-term election should be held immediately. The deputy would be entitled to run for the position, but would not be entitled to the office only because he recieved the second-most amount of votes, or was appointed. However, these parameters can be defined in the CoL and still carry sufficient weight.

 

[zorven]

I think we both agree that deputies do not need to be mentioned here. What I think should be here is more like "no citizen may hold more than one elected position at any one time".

 

[DaveShack]

Can leaving deputies unmentioned still result in their ability to act for the leader in times of temporary absense, or in the interim period before a mid-term election can be held?

If lack of participation becomes a problem where we have to let someone hold two offices, is there an appropriate safety valve mechanism, or do we let an office sit vacant?

 

[FortyJ]

Again. we still should poll this topic with a few potential ideas.

• Status Quo
• Removal - should be covered in the CoL.
• Increase the limit on the number of positions.
• Branch Specific - No more than one position per branch of government.

 

[ravensfire]

Originally posted by DaveShack
Can leaving deputies unmentioned still result in their ability to act for the leader in times of temporary absense, or in the interim period before a mid-term election can be held?

No, but that should be covered in the absenteeism discussion in the CoL.

Originally posted by DaveShack
If lack of participation becomes a problem where we have to let someone hold two offices, is there an appropriate safety valve mechanism, or do we let an office sit vacant?

Errr, uhhhh. That would probably require a Con. Amendment to resolve. Let's just keep actively recruiting so we don't have that problem!

As it is, I prefer zorven's wording to the original.

-- Ravensfire

 

[Cyc]

quoting FortyJ:
Branch Specific - No more than one position per branch of government.

I think this quote covers all the bases. excellent wording. It covers Leaders, Deputies (whether we decide to make them Leaders or not), Governors, and Justices. It's great. We would need to re-word it for the Con, but this basic concept is what we need.

 

[Bill_in_PDX]

I am concerned about the direction of the Branch Specific idea. In theory, someone could be Chief Justice, President, and Governor of the biggest province in the nation, all at once.

Now, if they were elected to those positions, then good for us, and hopefully we chose wisely, but I want to be sure we understand what that means.

 

[ravensfire]

I agree!

We have enough citizens to restrict each person to holding only one elected office at a time.

I do like the idea that if a person is an elected official, they cannot be a deputy though ...

-- Ravensfire

 

[zorven]

Originally posted by zorven
What I think should be here is more like "no citizen may hold more than one elected position at any one time".

This won't work as worded because of the word "elected". The problem is that there may be other positions that are elected that we did not intend to be covered by this section. A good example is the proposal to elect chat room ops. So how about:

"No citizen may simultaneously hold more than one elected position within the Executive, Legislative, and Judical branches."

This would work as long as none of the other types of "offices" (chat, cartography, etc) were defined as being part of a specific branch or department. This section would apply to mayors if they end up being elected.

 

[ravensfire]

Well, how about:
"No citizen may hold more than one elected leader position at any one time."

In the CoL, we'll defined the elected leader positions.

-- Ravensfire

 

[Cyc]

quoting zorven:
"No citizen may simultaneously hold more than one elected position within the Executive, Legislative, and Judical branches."


Sorry, I don't agree. I believe a citizen should be able to run for and obtain 2 Offices in different Branches. If I were to be elected as a Governor of a Province, I would think it would also be appropriate for me to accept a Judicial Position. Especially if I had held one of those positions for several Terms already.

How about ~ "No citizen may simultaneously hold more than one elected position per Branch within the Executive, Legislative, and Judical branches."

 

[zorven]

Originally posted by ravensfire
Well, how about:
"No citizen may hold more than one elected leader position at any one time."

In the CoL, we'll defined the elected leader positions.

-- Ravensfire

My intention (if it wasn't clear) is that you could not hold a leader position and a deputy position. So, your wording would have to include deputies within the leader definition which I think would not be a good idea. I would also rather not mention deputies in this text. Therefore I still think my latest proposal would work best.

Originally posted by Cyc
Sorry, I don't agree. I believe a citizen should be able to run for and obtain 2 Offices in different Branches. If I were to be elected as a Governor of a Province, I would think it would also be appropriate for me to accept a Judicial Position. Especially if I had held one of those positions for several Terms already.

How about ~ "No citizen may simultaneously hold more than one elected position per Branch within the Executive, Legislative, and Judical branches."

I know we disagree with this section. So I think you should develop you own proposal for inclusion on the poll.

 

[donsig]

Originally posted by zorven
I would rather see that you can only hold one leader or deputy position.

I agree with this.