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DG4 Discussion -- Constitutional Covention

Discussion in 'Civ3 - Demo Game III: Citizens' started by FionnMcCumhall, Oct 10, 2003.

  1. donsig

    donsig Low level intermediary

    Mar 6, 2001
    Rochester, NY
    Sorry, I don't have time to read all the posts in depth but do want to interject a couple thoughts:

    re: Deputies. Anyone can start any discussion. You do not have to be a leader or deputy or anything to start a discussion - or post a poll for that matter. Also, please remember that a deputy does not have to be formally installed as leader in order to lead. neither does a leader have to be formally removed from office for a deputy to be able to step in. The proposal to allow a deputy to post instructions if the leader doesn't do so by a given time is on the right track. But here's the trouble with trying to come up with a comprehensive ruleset from the git go: That good proposal needs alot of work. Say no instruction is posted by the deadline and the deputy comes in and does his or her job and posts some instructions. An hour later the leader shows up and posts different instructions. Which ones are the legal ones? Better yet, the leader wanders into the chat and starts countermanding the deputy's instructins left and right. You've got to address these kinds of questions and that takes a discussion thread of it's own.

    Yes, I do remember the good old days of Tlaxcala and the Southwest province. :) Naming the third vote getter a deputy / leader was supposed to be a temporary stop-gap measure - but the citizens never saw fit to pass a law addressing the matter. I never liked the idea of the number two vote getter being deputy. I've hated that idea ever since I was deputy domestic leader in DG1. (Eyrei was the leader and he and I had more than one policy dispute. It was kind of like John Adams having Thomas Jefferson for a VP.) I've always thought we should allow leaders to pick their own deputies before the election but that sort of thing smacks of political parties which have been anathema since day one of the Civ III demogames. I still dislike having leaders appoint deputies after the elections. If a leader can't or won't do his or her job what makes us think he or she will appoint a decent deputy?

    Re: other stuff. Official reprimands and removing officials from office are distractions that should be tabled. Use the election process to weed out poor leaders. Also why not have open ballots?
  2. Octavian X

    Octavian X is not a pipe.

    Jan 11, 2002
    deceiving people with images
    You know, I kind of like the idea of leader-appointed deputies, with not consolation prizes to runners-up. You'd want somebody in charge how at least agreed with your views in the event of your absence.

    I haven't had the time to really get into this discussion, though I can already tell everyone one thing: this is getting us nowhere. I propose an informational poll (or series thereof) to gauge the type of government that Fanaticans want. From there, we can more design a proposal most agreeable to all, not just those who have the interest to get into these types of debates.
  3. DaveShack

    DaveShack Inventor Retired Moderator

    Feb 2, 2003
    Arizona, USA (it's a dry heat)
    Hmm, it's a little work for the mods, but maybe we should have a sub-forum for DG4 futures, to include the discussions and polls. Without doing that, we'd be faced with a choice between cluttering up the polls on game decisions with the ones on DG4, or putting the DG4 polls in the Citizens subforum. If the discussion and polls on DG4 are in their own subform, then everyone will know to look there.

    I would be happy to start polls on the basic issues, as soon as there is a strong concensus on whether to
    • put them in the existing polls subforum
    • put them in the citizens subforum
    • create a new subforum for DG4 prep
    • other
  4. Donovan Zoi

    Donovan Zoi The Return

    Oct 22, 2002
    That is pretty much what we plan on doing, Octavian. Ravensfire has already stated here that he plans to address key points one-by-one. It is my understanding that any points of contention will be polled at that time.

    We are getting somewhere, Oct, but it is a long process. Once we address things individually, things will start to take shape.
  5. Bootstoots

    Bootstoots Deity Retired Moderator

    Mar 2, 2003
    I also approve of leader-appointed deputies if the position is not filled during the election process.
  6. FionnMcCumhall

    FionnMcCumhall Emperor

    May 28, 2002
    Phoenix, Arizona

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