1. We have added a Gift Upgrades feature that allows you to gift an account upgrade to another member, just in time for the holiday season. You can see the gift option when going to the Account Upgrades screen, or on any user profile screen.
    Dismiss Notice

DG5 Constitution: General Discussion

Discussion in 'Civ3 - Demo Game V: Citizens' started by DaveShack, Jun 5, 2004.

  1. Noldodan

    Noldodan 2 years of waiting...

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2002
    Messages:
    1,747
    Location:
    Gondolin!
    How about this? We give the citizens at the chat one power: ending the chat. Make it that if 2/3 of the citizenry votes to stop the chat, the chat stops and returns to the forum. Any objections?

    EDIT: Or we make a list of situations where the chat MUST be halted.
     
  2. donsig

    donsig Low level intermediary

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2001
    Messages:
    12,895
    Location:
    Rochester, NY
    I object! Why should we give a handful of citizens (who just happen to be able to attend a chat) this power? We elect a President to play the save. What is wrong with letting him or her make the decision on when it is appropriate to stop play?

    Let the chat attendees have their fun socializing at the chat but please, please let them be heard through the forums like the rest of us.
     
  3. Rik Meleet

    Rik Meleet Top predator Retired Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2003
    Messages:
    11,977
    Location:
    Nijmegen Netherlands
  4. Immortal

    Immortal Deity

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2002
    Messages:
    5,950
    Ill write a "what is the democracy game" thread for game 5 when everything comes together.

    Now, back on topic!
     
  5. Noldodan

    Noldodan 2 years of waiting...

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2002
    Messages:
    1,747
    Location:
    Gondolin!
    I could use generalities to give examples, or I could cite one in particular. Which would you prefer?
     
  6. Epimethius

    Epimethius Wish I Hadn't Been Here

    Joined:
    May 29, 2004
    Messages:
    770
    I felt the naming process was lacking, so I came up with a new one, and that lead into me coming up with a whole new proposal to have the ministers go with the game advisors, but have subministers where necessary. The comptroller, culture, and domestic ministers both have positions that require them to negociate with multiple people to decide things (such as worker use).

    Proposed Department Layout

    Minister of Internal Affairs (D)-Controls workers, but is advised by governors, other ministers on their use
    Comptroller (D)-Negociates slider settings between Technology and Culture
    Governors (D)-Handle city queues within province
    Mayors (D)-Advise governors?
    Minister of Defence (D)-Controls military units, planning
    Minister of Trade (D)-Governs resource use, trade
    Minister of Foreign Affairs (D)-Relations with other nations
    Minister of Technology (D)-Controls science research
    Minister of Culture (D)-Monitors city happiness, wonders, names cities

    Proposed City Naming Process:

    The Minister of Culture is to name each city on an individual basis when they are built. He can and should take requests from citizens for names. This would make city names more logical (culturally and geographically), as well as giving him something to do. If a city is founded that was not anticipated by the minister, it is to go by the default name until it may be changed next chat.
     
  7. eyrei

    eyrei Deity Retired Moderator

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2001
    Messages:
    9,162
    Location:
    Cary, NC USA
    I actually like that idea. At most, all they can do is send a decision back to the forums where everyone can participate.
     
  8. Noldodan

    Noldodan 2 years of waiting...

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2002
    Messages:
    1,747
    Location:
    Gondolin!
    Huzzah! Support!
     
  9. Black_Hole

    Black_Hole Deity

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2004
    Messages:
    3,424
    ill say this again:
    i believe the dp should have full control of workers,
    you have no idea how hard it is in the late game to give and follow instructions for 200 workers
     
  10. Noldodan

    Noldodan 2 years of waiting...

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2002
    Messages:
    1,747
    Location:
    Gondolin!
    Maybe the MIA could just give general instructions late in the game.
     
  11. Bibor

    Bibor Doomsday Machine

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2004
    Messages:
    2,841
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Zagreb, Croatia
    Since this is CIV (quote from my friend), IMHO the Minister of Defence should be renamed "Minister of War".

    BIbor

     
  12. donsig

    donsig Low level intermediary

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2001
    Messages:
    12,895
    Location:
    Rochester, NY
    I'm sure I can refute either. :)
     
  13. Noldodan

    Noldodan 2 years of waiting...

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2002
    Messages:
    1,747
    Location:
    Gondolin!
    Alrighty then. Suppose that the DP goes crazy and plays. And plays. And keeps on playing. As long as the action was documented in some way, this could actually happen, according to our current laws. Now can't we agree that this would be a Bad Thing? And aren't Bad Things, well, bad? Do we want Bad Things?

    For specifics I turn, of course, to the first chat of DG3, Term 3. After declaring war on the Aztecs, you refused to stop the turnchat and return to the forums to discuss the execution of the war. Now, I would say that wars need to be at least planned for. The planning should almost certainly be done with the input of the people, not by one person alone.
     
  14. Immortal

    Immortal Deity

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2002
    Messages:
    5,950
    if such a scenario occured noldodan, that is when a moderator steps in, and an impeachment is started.
     
  15. Noldodan

    Noldodan 2 years of waiting...

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2002
    Messages:
    1,747
    Location:
    Gondolin!
    Impeach them for what? We have no laws to cover such a situation.
     
  16. Immortal

    Immortal Deity

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2002
    Messages:
    5,950
    this sentence is what I was trying to reply to, I apologize for not making that clear.
     
  17. Noldodan

    Noldodan 2 years of waiting...

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2002
    Messages:
    1,747
    Location:
    Gondolin!
    Yes, I know Immortal. As it stands now, such a scenario is perfectly legal.
     
  18. Immortal

    Immortal Deity

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2002
    Messages:
    5,950
    okay, if nothing of interest happens then the DP may as well continue to play, however once something of interest happens I think the DP should be obligated to discontinue the game (war, resource exhaustion etc). If the DP does not stop the game, I think there should be punishment for that, for not giving the citizens a chance to reply to such an action.
     
  19. Epimethius

    Epimethius Wish I Hadn't Been Here

    Joined:
    May 29, 2004
    Messages:
    770
    I was going to call it War, but since its seems we'll be playing as pacifists, I figured Defence would make more sense. I've also decided that the comptroller's job could just be given to the MoIA. As for workers, I think that towards the end the instructions could be, as Noldordan said, vague. If the job is too big, any particular advisor should be able to give relatively vague instructions, so the DP could figure out the rest, rather than having overly complex war, worker, etc plans.
     
  20. donsig

    donsig Low level intermediary

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2001
    Messages:
    12,895
    Location:
    Rochester, NY
    First of all, the hypothetical scenario you describe could be prevented by making a specific rule limiting the number of turns that can be played per game play session. Such a rule can be easily made without resorting to a three tiered legal structure that is so cumbersome no one understands all its ramifications. Such a rule is also very much preferable to giving a handful of chat attendees power to stop game play just because something happens that they don't happen to like.

    Secondly, as to your historical scenario, I'd like to make two points (again):

    1) I did not declare war on the Aztecs, the Aztecs declared war on our country when I refused their demands to remove our troops from what I considered to be our territory.

    2) I agree that wars should be planned for. I would go further and say that many, many other things in the demogame should be planned for. Such as, what do we do if these Aztec settlers squat and build a city on land we've already claimed? But what do we do when no one plans? Stop playing? Maybe that's what you'd have done in term three. I looked at the posts in the forum, based my decision on those and moved ahead. Unfortunately, it happened that those at the chat did not agree with what had been posted in the forums and proceeded to raise bloody heck - which still hasn't died down, judging by the fact that it is still brought up. ;) So, my point here is this: the decision that lead to the war was not unilateral but based on posts made in this thread concerning possible Aztec settlement. (BTW, I pointed out that very thread to YOU (Noldodan) when you asked how the war started. Perhaps now that tempers have subsided over this ( :lol: ) you will go back and read the thread.)

    Anything else I need to refute (again)?
     

Share This Page