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DG6 Discussion: Keep the RPG?

Discussion in 'Civ3 - Demo Game V: Citizens' started by Civanator, Jan 11, 2005.

  1. Civanator

    Civanator Deity

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    The RPG... Sometimes the most fun in the DG, sometimes just another forum taking up space on the server. Should we bring it back?

    If we decide to keep the RPG for DG6, I would be willing to run it, but have limited participation as to avoid conflict of interest. I have many ideas for the RPG to make it a better and more fun RPG. I have rules that I will type and post later, as I dont want to waste the time now if no one wants to bring the RPG into DG6.

    -Don't start the RPG until the end of the Ancient age, or maybe early Medieval. From my many experiences in many RP's and RPG's, this is the era when RP's and RPG's are the most fun.

    -Limit the RPG to start in the Middle or late Ancient age to go to the middle/late of the Medieval age. Again, this is when it is most fun.

    -Land ownership
    Maybe a default NPC king for the beginning until people have established their boundaries. Or fairly dealing out all the land to the participants. We could operate somewhat on a Feudal system, with a few Players owning the land, and giving it to vassals to rule seeing this would give everyone a chance to own land.

    -Income/Land Management. Obviously, your income will be determined based on the tiles you own, and other factors. I plan on introducing a simple and easy to use way of figuring your income, and will post a chart when/if the time comes.

    -Units. Of course, we wont be able to plot them in the game, but I can remake the DG map in the editor, and use the editor to place the units that are owned by players. The only problem with this is that it will be hard to show land ownership, but I can just put in the lines in a paint program.
    It can be a given that all players will have the resources required to buy/create units (i.e. Iron for swordsmen, horses for horsemen.) but this can be voted on by the players.

    -Balancing. There will be times when a certain lord/king/baron/vassal will become too powerful. There are many ways for the players to balance this themselves.

    -Random events. Sometimes these can be unfun, sometimes they can be fun. For the most part they are up to the players if they will be included. Random events include, but are not limited to: tsunamis, volcanoes, floods, earthquakes, fires, resource strikes (finding a resource like gold or iron), a crusade or military campaign against a foreign nation (a nation we are at war with in the DG)

    -NPC's and PC's. Of course, you can create NPC's that do not affect the game much at your leisure, but I am thinking that you would be limited to 1 major character.

    -Roleplay! The most important aspect of the whole RPG. This is what keeps the RPG alive. I can start a story (most likely will be a 'Crusade'), but I will never take more than a supporting role to help the story along, and only make suggestions via roleplay at what players could do. It is soley a player's part to take initiative and lead the roleplay along.

    *Note* I can give you more information upon request, as I have many ideas, and much information to share.

    I am willing to help bring this RPG back, but I need to know if the people want it. In essence I might be the 'Dungeon Master' of the RPG, but I would use my 'power' to make sure people have fun.


    ------

    I am posting the first draft of the RPG rules in this main post, and I will update it again when I create a second draft, and so forth until the Final Draft is worked out. It can be found in Post #40, but all future drafts will be in this post.
     
  2. GenMarshall

    GenMarshall Night Elven Ghost Agent

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    With the limited sucsess that the RPG of DG5. I doubt that we should include this in DG6. No offense to any RPG supporters.
     
  3. Civanator

    Civanator Deity

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    The problem with the DG5 RPG was that there was nothing to keep people interested in play, except a few stories. RPG is a RolePlaying Game. There needs to some sort of game to play. The DG5 RPG should really be called DG5 RP, as there was no game in it.
     
  4. Gres

    Gres Chieftain

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    I did not really realize that there was such a type of RPG in existance. I think maybe the problem is that it isn't advertised enough? I thought the RPG forum was just for people who took on a character and told stories or something.
    Now that I know what it is it sounds really interesting. I would hate to never have been able to participate in something like this :sad:
     
  5. Civanator

    Civanator Deity

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    In this DG, it was more storyies, but in the golden age of the RPG (DG2 and early DG3) it was like this, and it was entertaining. The thing is, no one had enough time to manage it, so it died out :(. But now I can manage it, but only if people are interested in playing
     
  6. Gres

    Gres Chieftain

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    Im interested!
     
  7. Black_Hole

    Black_Hole Deity

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    tough decision... if i saw a good ruleset then i would probably say yes, otherwise put me as undecided
     
  8. Civanator

    Civanator Deity

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    I'll give you an example of some rules in a few minutes. Just gotta type it all out. They may be lengthy, but they are easy to understand. For the example I'll show you Land Management.
     
  9. Civanator

    Civanator Deity

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    Land Management

    1. Land provides a number of food, shields and commerce/gold (f/s/c or f/s/g) that it would if worked in a city, and produces it's value shown when clicked to view info in a game. This is pretty straight forward.

    2. A city produces the number of food, shields, and gold seen in the city view, plus an additional gold for each population point.
    Example: Fanatica is size 6, so it's owner receives an additional 6 gold to his/her income.

    3. Gold can be converted to food or shields, making 1/2 of either.

    4. A single contigous territory with at least 5 tiles, earns added gold per tile.
    5-9 tiles = +1 g/ti
    10-14 tiles = +2 g/ti
    15-24 tiles = +3 g/ti
    25-49 tiles = +5 g/ti
    50+ tiles = +10 g/ti
    Here is a chart to help you:
    Code:
    Tiles[center]Gold added to income[/center]
    5[center]5[/center]
    6[center]6[/center]
    7[center]7[/center]
    8[center]8[/center]
    9[center]9[/center]
    ---[center]---[/center]
    10[center]20[/center]
    11[center]22[/center]
    12[center]24[/center]
    13[center]26[/center]
    14[center]28[/center]
    ---[center]---[/center]
    15[center]45[/center]
    16[center]48[/center]
    17[center]51[/center]
    18[center]54[/center]
    19[center]57[/center]
    20[center]60[/center]
    21[center]60[/center]
    22[center]66[/center]
    23[center]69[/center]
    24[center]72[/center]
    ---[center]---[/center]
    25[center]125[/center]
    26[center]130[/center]
    27[center]135[/center]
    28[center]140[/center]
    29[center]145[/center]
    30[center]150[/center]
    31[center]155[/center]
    32[center]160[/center]
    33[center]165[/center]
    34[center]170[/center]
    35[center]175[/center]
    36[center]180[/center]
    37[center]185[/center]
    38[center]190[/center]
    39[center]195[/center]
    40[center]200[/center]
    41[center]205[/center]
    42[center]210[/center]
    43[center]215[/center]
    44[center]220[/center]
    45[center]225[/center]
    46[center]230[/center]
    47[center]235[/center]
    48[center]240[/center]
    49[center]245[/center]
    ---[center]---[/center]
    50[center]500[/center]
    
    The Feudal System(strongly encouraged, not required)

    A player who owns a large amount of territory will have difficulty keeping track of his or her land and income. A player may allow another to use his land as the new player's own. Some rules to consider:

    -The Lord of the land still collects added gold for his contigous territory. This includes the land he allows Vassals to use.

    -Vassals collect added gold for the land that is alotted to them by the Lord

    -A Lord may tax his Vassals as he sees fit, though it may not be what the Vassal wants.

    -A Vassal is considered to have sworn allegiance to the Lord upon taking the land, and the diplomatic relations of the Vassal to any other Lord's or foreign Vassals will be what his Lord's relations are.

    -A Vassal may rise up in rebellion against the Lord, and likewise, the Lord may use any means necessary to crush the rebellion.

    -If a Vassal succeeds in rebellion, his land is now completely his and is considered a new nation.

    ---
    More to come!
     
  10. DaveShack

    DaveShack Inventor Retired Moderator

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    To make it a role playing game you need a system where luck and skill come together to make a competition. A true RPG is a contest which happens to have role playing as its medium. An impartial game master is essential, and the rules need to be sufficiently complex that variances in how people play affect the outcome. It would also help to have a large enough set of players that alliances become a major part of the game. Also, use the stories generated by the game to keep interest in the parallel Civ game.

    To some extent, the demogame is itself a role playing game. I'm currently playing the part of a foreign affairs minister in DG5, and of a "founding father" in DG6. These are far removed from my day job, which is what draws me to the game.
     
  11. Gres

    Gres Chieftain

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    Interesting point DS. Well said, I like that way of looking at DG.
     
  12. Chieftess

    Chieftess Moderator Retired Moderator

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    Exactly, which is why citizens groups, city threads, and other city event threads (Remember Asphinxia in DG1? The Asphinxian Ball) should be encouraged. Even if it's in the citizens forum, it breaks the monotany of constant discussion.
     
  13. Ashburnham

    Ashburnham King

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    I think DaveShack's post is the biggest argument against the RPG. I, too, am here to "roleplay" as a government official in the running of the Democracy of Japanatica. For me, that is enough, which is why I barely ever posted on the RPG forum. However, I have only had experience in DG5. The model Civanator provides sounds extremely interesting, and I would most likely give it a shot were it to be implemented in DG6.
     
  14. Civanator

    Civanator Deity

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    What I am doing to formulate the rules is looking back upon DG2RPG and DG3RPG and seeing what worked and what didn't work, and modifying them so they provide more fun.
     
  15. Gres

    Gres Chieftain

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    I would really like to the this happen Civanator. If you need any assistance at all I would be happy to help :)
     
  16. Civanator

    Civanator Deity

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    Really the only assistance I need is suggestions for the ruleset that I am going to be posting in the next few days, and player support :).

    As I see it, when managers of the RPG, especially the old position of conflict manager, play the RPG and become very powerful there are players who accuse them of cheating, and being the conflict manager may incline one to alter results so that he or she doesn't lose a battle, unless we can get fair conflict manager. Again, I propose to have the players discuss/vote on this, to keep it a bit democratic ;).
     
  17. Gres

    Gres Chieftain

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    Perhaps a conflict manager should not play like yourself. That would stop the accusations.
     
  18. Cyc

    Cyc Looking for the door...

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    :) I don't remember anyone accusing Octavian X of cheating. Guess I missed that discussion.

    Hey I'll volunteer for Conflict Manager. I can sit out this game.
     
  19. Civanator

    Civanator Deity

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    I am going to try to formulate the Units and Nobility rules, and maybe the rest of the rules.

    Characters

    1. Each player may control 2 player characters (PC's) at any given time.

    2. Character statistics are the innate traits of the character. These are determined by the player.

    3. A character cannot die of old age, or in a random event (unless the player states). A character can die in combat.

    Character Stats and Traits

    Intelligence - Determines how the character is intellectually, and their ability to solve problems. A high intelligence will help a character outwit his or her enemy in the battlefield

    Charisma - Determines how the person appears to other characters. A character with a high charisma will be able to command more soldiers in the battlefield.

    Constitution - Determines the physical strength and health of the character. A higher constitution increases the chances a character will come out of a battle alive or only minorly wounded.

    Dicipline - Determines how industrious they are at performing tasks, and how they can lead people and show patience. A higher discipline enables a character to command more units in battle, and increases a character's chance of survival in a battle.

    Agility - Determines the athleticness and quickness of the character. A character with a higher agility will have a higher survival rate.

    You may give your character stats (from 0 - 20). You get 65 points to put into these stats. 10 is average.

    Calculation for Unit Control

    (C^3*I^2*D*1.5)/300,000

    C is Charisma
    I is Intelligence
    D is Discipline


    Conflict and Units

    Basics

    1. Each player may raise a certain number of units per chat. This is based on their caste level and modified by their statistics.

    2. Each character also has a maximum number of units that they can maintain command over. This is based on their statistics, and modified by their caste and territory owned.

    3. Each unit costs one shield and one food per chat to be maintained in fighting order. A unit without this support becomes a half strength unit. After 2 chats at half strength the unit will disperse.

    4. Each unit costs a number of shields to raise that is equal to 1/10 of the number of shields to build it in the Civ3 game.

    5. Mercenary units must be supported with gold and cost gold equivalent to their unit raising cost each chat. (Example: It costs 3 shields to raise a swordsman. It would cost 3g per chat to maintain a mercenary swordsman.)

    6. Units are stationed in a territory and can be assumed to be located anywhere inside that territory. A unit can move into (through) one territory per chat for each of its Civ3 movement points. If movement is not contested and is along roads a unit can move into (through) 3 territories per chat for each of its Civ3 movement points. A unit must always stop movement when it enters a contested territory.

    7. Units in a contested area will fight using their unit attack/defense values from the Civ3 game modified by character warfare skills, terrain, defenses, etc. Forces may be destroyed, rebuffed, routed, etc.

    Unit 'Leasing' (Mercenaries)

    A player may have a surplus of units that he or she does not need, and can let another player's character 'borrow' that unit for a price. The unit will then be considered under the paying character's control and will effect his or her Unit Command.

    Unique Units

    A player may create a limit of 1 unique unit for the entire game. This unique unit will be available to that player's characters for purchase for a limit of 3 turnchats. The player creats the stats, but are subject to approval by the (Conflict) RPG Manager.

    Unit Command

    As stated earlier a character has a certain amount of units he or she can control. That character can control more units than the alotted number, but they may defect.

    ---

    I'll stop there as my mind refuses to continue to work. I have to edit Land Management to include the feudal stuff.
     
  20. Civanator

    Civanator Deity

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    @Cyc- I'm not saying anyone was accused of it, but it was a bit odd when CG and I were heads of Conflict Management and Land Management, respectively, and we both controlled the 2 largest and most powerful provinces in the RPG. I think that was what killed the RPG a bit.

    We really dont need to have a conflict manager who sits out, but I volunteered to run the RPG as I really want to see it get going, and I am here everyday to help solve conflicts.

    I have many ideas on how to deal out the land when the RPG starts, as it will most likely start when we have a substantial amount of cities to give everyone a chance.

    What we need is people to make suggestions on how this RPG is to be run. Should it be under the control of 1 manager, or have 3 or 4 managers?
     

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