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DG6 Traditional Laws - SHOW US YOUR CARDS

Discussion in 'Civ3 - Demo Game V: Citizens' started by Provolution, Jan 30, 2005.

  1. Provolution

    Provolution Sage of Quatronia

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    One recurring theme and one of the root causes for many problems and misunderstandings in the DG is the "traditional laws". Tacit knowledge and heavily enforced rules not accessible to the mainstream before they ask.
    We need to make these laws explicit and codified, and then enforced in a fair, transparent and effective system.

    We should never again see:

    Traditional naming laws for cities and provinces (Governor naming is fine)
    Enforcement of the naming codes done as last DG
    **Unit naming will be a new law, not traditional as this is C3C

    Political parties ban should be defined, and for all practicality calls for a ban of all bloc voting or calling for a specified group to vote for a certain preference. In fact, we can still open for political parties lobbying for certain in-game variables such as Iron-Party, Horse-Party, Silks-Party, or a Monarchy or Republic Party, this was done in "citizen groups", and worked as political parties, but actually helped the game look more interesting. We should not see vague last minute warnings attacking misconceived initiatives for forming political parties without applying firmly set objective criteria.

    Other traditional laws could be that of debate standards, ways of running discussions and so on. We need to agree on where "anything goes" and where
    we need standards everyone should abide by.
     
  2. snipelfritz

    snipelfritz Crazy about the Demogame

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    The Demogame Forums!!!
    If it is a law, it should be stated in the constitution or the code of laws. Otherwise, it is not a law. If you want it to be a law propose it as a law. There's my 2 cents.
     
  3. Provolution

    Provolution Sage of Quatronia

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    I agree Snipelfritz, but this was targeted on the veterans that has been relying on socalled traditional laws that were unwritten, and I hope they come forwards with everything they got, so we got no surprises. Still, the question is to follow the citizen registry or follow a model rewarding more productive citizens.
     
  4. Cyc

    Cyc Looking for the door...

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    If you really want everything laid out for all to read, then you need a Constitution and supporting laws comparable to ones used in DG2. But the people have said the don't want the information given by those documents. They want the vagueness of DG3. They don't want to be told what to do and what's worse, they don't want to have to read about what they have to do. And they darn sure don't want to have to be the ones who write those rules.

    I have spent the last four Demogames trying to keep the basic game concepts as just as I can, in a progressive kind of way. It's worked for the most part, but now people are calling this the Game of Aristocracy. Why? Because there is continuity from game to game. Why? Because some people stick around to have fun and teach new-comers how to play the game. That's were the problems start. After you teach the new-comers how to play, they don't want to write about the old laws (which is understandable). They want to experience the new and better way to play the game. Therefore they have to make the same errors and follow the wrong paths, just as the veterans did. If the veterans say, "Hey we can save you time and effort if you concentrate on this", those veterans are labeled as trying to control the game. Keep in mind I'm not speaking here of people who stuff the ballots and get their friends elected. Those people DO try to control thee game in a different manner. I am talking about the people that put a lot of work into the ruleset, the people that try to explain the problems of the past and how this mystical list of unwritten laws can actuallly help. Just because some people didn't want this mystical list brought forward because it cramped their style, doesn't mean it doesn't work.

    With C3C, a lot will change. The new ruleset should reflect these changes. If you want to bring these unwritten laws forward in an effort to improve the game, fine. But you will be labeled as the Aristocracy controlling the game. Good luck.
     
  5. Provolution

    Provolution Sage of Quatronia

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    Well, it cannot be that hard to write a law against bloc voting and enforced political platforms prior to elections by group, or to write out a fair naming code that can be enforced. Fair city naming is important for many reasons Cyc, and you know what I am referring to. I think many of us want a clear cut naming convention, and a clear cut ban on political parties. All we do is to make this explicit, so that no one is told what to do in the last minute. Some of us wasted time setting up political parties, and got jinxed by the brilliant city namers, not to mention the short changed late-comers.
    Patching up these sore gaps would not make anyone aristocracy, but make the traditional laws forced upon us from the outset, explicit and for all to read.

    Knowing there is a law banning political parties, among other more or less spurious laws, as well as a fair naming convention, would create needed clarity, so we avoid favoritism, not accountable naming offices and so on. We can sweep all these experiences under the carpet or we can remedy these so that these never reoccurs.
    The true aristocrats of the game manage to sign up in the citizen registry, way before
    latecomers that put in tremendous effort show up, and the true aristocrats inform on unwritten rules in the last minute, and do not place fair enforcement mechanisms applying said unwritten rules. All we want to see if there are more surprises in the Traditional Laws we are to be told last minute by veterans, or that this information will be shared here, so we can decice to include or omit these hitherto traditional laws in the future system. I will certainly reject any last minute surprise laws that is not written, ratified by poll and generally accepted.

    Naming convention
    President names Capital (only one city per citizen remains)
    Governors names Provinces (1st term)
    Citizen Registry may be used, maybe by having minimum 5 posts per citizen as a prerequisite, or a roll call ahead of next term to see who is still actively reading the posts, eventually polling or discussing, or both.
    Daveshack proposed a reward model here.

    All I want is to get all traditional laws to be used next game to be presented here.
    Then everyone can make up their mind on how to go about them.
     
  6. blackheart

    blackheart unenlightened

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    How would you enforce a law against block voting? As for the City Naming thing, it was a nonelected office, if you were fed up with it, take over the office.
     

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