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DGVI Strategic/Tactical government experiment

Discussion in 'Civ3 - Demo Game V: Citizens' started by ravensfire, Feb 2, 2005.

  1. Noldodan

    Noldodan 2 years of waiting...

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    Bah, I've been doing Tactical Domestic things my whole career. Sign me up for FA! Now if I only had a strategic planner...
     
  2. Black_Hole

    Black_Hole Deity

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    which would be me :D
    But i havent got too much detail because we havent found anyone...
     
  3. Noldodan

    Noldodan 2 years of waiting...

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    So it is, on both counts! I guess we twiddle our thumbs till we're onto the next save. *twiddle, twiddle*
     
  4. ravensfire

    ravensfire Member of the Opposition

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    Forgot about the slider comment.

    Strategy leaders basically set strategies that can last for several turn chats. While they shouldn't be directly calling the slider, something like "Min research on Tech Z" or "Get Tech Y as fast as possible" are quite acceptable, and encouraged!

    Realize, however, that each strategy leader does have some impact on the slider. For example, the military strategies might note that we have an out-dated military, and we need to start upgrades. Urban might note that we need to increase luxuries over the next few chats to manage happiness. Each tac leader has to look at the difference strategy notes, and see how those notes related to them.

    -- Ravensfire
     
  5. Cyc

    Cyc Looking for the door...

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    Sorry, I was side-tracked to other things. I realized that because time is short and we're working straight off the save, there won't be any discussions or poll for the Strategic people to work with. I'm assuming that what we post will be a reflection of those imaginary discussions and polls.

    City Placement and Urban Planning ~
    As we are just South of the Equator, rather than expand North into possible Jungle terrain, let's concentrate on southern expansion. Initial growth pattern should be tight, with city placement 3 to 4 tiles from Capital city for first ring. With the Capital city in a great location for growth/Settler/Worker production, we should look for production oriented locations close by for most of the first ring cities.
     
  6. DaveShack

    DaveShack Inventor Retired Moderator

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    Science is a really good example to point out the real difference between strategic and tactical planning. The reason I asked my previous question the way I did, is that it was specifically the type of science strategy we should be focusing on instead of focusing on the techs. Specifically, if the objective is to research techs and sell them, then we choose techs with sales value. Chieftess tried to push for currency in DG5 for this reason, it is something you can almost always sell, as long as you don't fool around with other stuff that isn't really needed for the strategy.

    Don't get me wrong, there are sometimes specific techs which drive the strategy even more than the basic research and sell vs buy tech decision. One example is if we end up on an islands map, then map making needs to be a high priority. If we start with alphabet then maybe we do the philosophy slingshot strategy which is a specific sequence of techs (and possibly trades).

    The key difference between the proposed alternatives and the traditional system is that in the alternative we would discuss why we want to do things, instead of what we want to do.
     
  7. ravensfire

    ravensfire Member of the Opposition

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    Domestic

    City Placement:
    Send the current settler to 2 squares northeast of the northern-most gems.
    Poll thread showing location This is location D.
    If we are beaten to this location by some unknown civ, please halt the chat.

    City production:
    Fanatikku: Warrior, Warrior, Warrior

    Workers:
    Use 1 worker to build road to new city, then onto Gems once it completes current task.

    -- Ravensfire
     
  8. ravensfire

    ravensfire Member of the Opposition

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    Okay, all Strategy posts are up, and all but Military tactical posts are up (Yo - Civanator - that's you!).

    If anyone has comments on what's out there thus far - post 'em!

    RF comments:
    First, this was a very simple, almost too simple, test. I didn't look too closely at the save, just thought we were farther along. Putting together instructions proved very simple.

    The most interesting comment, though, was from DS so far. A probing question, and a follow-up comment, showing the key to this idea - asking "Why" questions, not "What". Let's continue that discussion that DS raised - our tech goals - and see how that might affect the next set of instructions (using the term 3, chat 7 save).

    -- Ravensfire
     
  9. TimBentley

    TimBentley Deity

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    Continue researching bronze working at 100% science. The turn before it is researched, lower the slider to the minimum where it will be researched in one turn. Research alphabet at 100%. If alphabet is acquired, research writing. If writing is acquired, please stop the chat. If 100% research results in negative gpt, research at the maximum level without losing money.

    You may use gold in trades, but do not use gpt.

    No culture or wonders are needed at this time.
     
  10. ravensfire

    ravensfire Member of the Opposition

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    Phase 2 is starting!

    Strategy folks - grab the save for the second phase (it's linked in the second post) and start going through it. It's later in the game, with conflict, so there is a lot there.

    If you need any screenshots, or game information, post it and hopefully someone can get it for you. I'll be home in 3 hours, and will work on what's needed then.

    Phase 1 is nearly done!
    Missing just one person, so we're almost there. So, what did you like? What didn't you like? What would you change?

    -- Ravensfire
     
  11. Cyc

    Cyc Looking for the door...

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    Well, I'm going to be totally dependant on information provided by others. That's risky business. It was fun for me, but I had a save to work with. You dealt with my planning well, Ravensfire. :thumbsup:
     
  12. Civanator

    Civanator Deity

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    hmm I hadn't noticed MOTH posted his strategy. So is it too late for me to post instructions for phase 1?
     
  13. ravensfire

    ravensfire Member of the Opposition

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    Nope, far from it! Let's see what you got!

    -- Ravensfire
     
  14. Civanator

    Civanator Deity

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    Are we playing 10 turn sessions or longer? My instructions will last for longer than 10 turns though.


    Tactical Military Plans

    Explore south to east with Southern Warrior. If a goody hut is sighted go for the hut. Eliminate any Barbarian threats within 2 tiles of the warrior, but only if the Barbarian can be intercepted in 2 turns (based on which way he is going)

    -Have next warrior escort settler, then next warrior garrison. Have a third warrior go directly for the mountain 2NE-1E of Fanatikku, then explore the northeastern part of the continent.

    -A fourth warrior will wait for another settler.

    Edit: One last thing, you mispelled my name in the first post. Civanator ;). Only 1 "I" in the name.
     
  15. MOTH

    MOTH Emperor

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    Test Phase 2 Military Planning

    Troop Level Targets: Overall number of Military units should be up to 100% of free unit support during war build up. Peace time level should be at 75% of free unit support.
    Garrisons: 1 Defensive unit per town
    Additional Defense: A few extra defensive units should be used to provide as needed defensive support.
    Offensive Units: additional builds should be horses to allow for future upgrades.
    Bombardment Units: up to 10% overall force level.

    Threats:
    Border Integrity is important. Contain and Eliminate any enemy combatents in our territory.
    Principal threats are from Babylonian Bowmen in the South. Keep additional defensive units where they can quickly bolster the defenses. Roman Horsemen in the East is the other principal threat. Use fast units where possible.

    Strategic goals during conflict:
    Border Consolidation: Capture or eliminate Eridu and Neapolis as soon as reasonable.
    Roman Resources: Attempt to deny the existing horses. Also try to capture Pompeii to prevent Rome from gaining Iron.
    Babylon: Keep a defensive posture until the above goals are met. Longer term goals are to capture or elimate Elippi and Akkad to relieve cultural presure.
     
  16. ravensfire

    ravensfire Member of the Opposition

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    Never mind folks. People can't wait for things to finish, can't wait to see if, or how things work. Direct all comments to this thread over what you think so far about this. Would have nice to make decisions with some good information.

    Best of luck on the ruleset.

    -- Ravensfire
     
  17. DaveShack

    DaveShack Inventor Retired Moderator

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    Ravensfire, I don't understand why you're backing off. Just because someone starts putting some legalese around the alternative ideas doesn't mean we need to withdraw from working on them.
     
  18. ravensfire

    ravensfire Member of the Opposition

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    DS - we've now got THREE places to put concerns, comments and suggestions on non-core ideas. (Non-core meaning those area not directly related to government structure, excluding judiciary).

    We've got a poll trying to decide the form of government while this is still going on. Heck - it's essentially polling 1 traditional against 3 alternative.

    We've got some significant issues, still being decided, that people can't bother to wait 1 freakin' week on.

    That's fine. CT wondered why some, including me, were disappointed in how she came into this. Here's why - a strong moderator would have been guiding these discussions from the beginning, been active in them. Those summaries I did - should have been a mod, keeping the discussions going, keeping the points active. DZ did that before, and it worked.

    Think about this - there are now two full blown threads on detailed proposals. Cool - now, where do you comment about elections? Strider's thread, cause that's in there. Black_Holes, cause that's in there too. How about CT's thread? But ... doesn't that mean that you're going to have to say the same thing 3 times, just to make sure it gets put everywhere. Why yes, yes it does.

    Putting things in legalese is fine. It's great. It's too early for most areas. About a quarter of those threads are going to need a poll to settle issues. Bah - why wait for that, right?

    DS - trying to track all of this is an insane effort that truly sucks - you did it, you know how difficult it is. Now multiply that times three, because you'd hate to miss a point made in Strider or B_H's thread, and not include that.

    I'm glad to see people taking an active, involved interest in pushing towards the completion of things. But that does take time. We've got the time, if everyone is working in the same area. People can't be bothered with that, evidently, and don't care all that much about the duplication of effort.

    I do. I don't have the time to do an adequate job, let alone one up to my standards given those chaotic situations. Hopefully, someone else does.

    I'm not going to stop commenting, or start sniping, I'm just not going to keep pushing. I gave several areas a nice start - we made good progress today. I'll be on the cart from now on though, laughing as three people pull in different directions.

    Got a spot next to me, with a cooler of cold ones. Pull up a seat, and enjoy the show.

    -- Ravensfire
     
  19. Strider

    Strider In Retrospect

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    What did you expect? 10 Discussions, alot of which were started beforehand, then abunch of "Official Discussions" came out. I wouldn't have even bothered trying to organize it all, much less even think about it. Even more so with the alternative styles being proposed this DG.

    Also, an I told you so, sounds pretty good right now, because I told you this will happen. Check the Alternative Government Thread, I told you that it will start fights, I told your it will cause confusion. Well, possibly a slight correction, I told Daveshack, but it was still out there.

    BTW, I find it really nice that you ignored my PM.
     
  20. Cyc

    Cyc Looking for the door...

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    Ah, here we are again. One big happy family. :D

    Strider, your "I told you so" is meaningless. Had you left and not posted anything, it would hold some weight. You polled out of place and you rag on people and their ideas while you push your bizzare agendas. Give it a break.

    The problem that has arisen THIS demogame seque (and probably the last one too) is one of profits and mismanagement. It obvious that Thunderfall believes he will get more hits to the Demogame forums if there is a Demogame happening in them. This is the pair of blinders he is using when trying to solve the problems we find ourselves in. Rather than having a really good Demogame, he just wants a Demogame. So he had his expendable Mod build a brick wall across the highway to DG6, claiming "the road stops here, figure it out" I also wouldn't be suprized to find out the wall went up when it was discovered there was an alternate government plan about. What TF isn't seeing is these forums are getting plenty of hits for his advertisers even though we're between games. But you can't argue with the boss, so what does all this matter? They're going to have their game whether it's a quality game or not. The funny part about it is that when you people saw the wall across the highway, you poured on the gas. :lol: Things never change. And because of that, what I've just said isn't going to help you people solve your problem.

    I've spent 5 Demogames trying to help keep this thing afloat or at least on the right track. I've tried to remain in the background here, just monitoring the progress. I really don't want to work extra hard (like Ravensfire has just done) to get things going only to see them fall apart again. You people have too many irons in the fire, you don't know who you are anymore, but you darn sure don't want to follow Strider. So what are you going to do? Ask YNCS, he probably has the answer. But watch out for that wall across the road. You better have all this figured out by the time you get to it. :D
     

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