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Diabolical AI decisions persist

Discussion in 'Civ6 - General Discussions' started by Horizons, Apr 10, 2017.

  1. Horizons

    Horizons Needing fed again!

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    Briefly, we all know that the building / teching aspect of the AI has been improved and it gets more units. However I've seen some examples of the following on King:

    1) A settler sits in the same position for a great number of turns, with good terrain to settle within reach, often with an escort and no barbarians or hostile units nearby

    2) An enemy unit passes up on the opportunity to insta-heal by pillaging a farm and instead moves next to a city whereupon it gets bombarded and killed

    3) Invading an AI's homeland, it sends units out to pillage tiles in city states, instead of consolidating its forces in order to fend off the mortal threat to its existence. I remember this as far back as Civ4. There should be some kind of trigger that tells the AI that it is fighting for its existence (e.g. large scale invasion, threatening its capital) and it should never start sending units off to pillage distant tiles.


    These examples are so egregious, I sometimes just feel like quitting the game. It's like playing against a kid.
     
  2. Rosty K

    Rosty K King

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    The settler thing happens when the way to where it wants to go is blocked. They just don't change their mind on this for some reason, and it'll stay there forever, or until someone else settles its target spot, or otherwise makes it ineligible.

    I mean, it doesn't interpret 'good settling terrain' the same way humans do, it just picks a particular spot and will persist in trying to settle there while technically possible.

    However, I once had an AI declare war on me after I was blocking the passage for its settler for some time... Well, I got the settler :D
     
  3. dac050

    dac050 Warlord

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    In my current game I've been using a scout to block a Chinese settler for hundreds of years at this point. And the settler is on a coast, he could back up 1 tile, and take to the water and not be blocked anymore, but it advances, sees my scout, backs up, and then next turn does it all over again.
     
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  4. CBE Player

    CBE Player Warlord

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    Try stepping it up a level or two then they aren't quite as "dumbed down". On King they are made out to be less intelligent for the level.
     
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  5. Zuizgond

    Zuizgond Prince

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    Higher difficulty levels just give AI more bonus. It doesn't change anything about AI dumbness.
     
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  6. Furycrab

    Furycrab King

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    The point here is that the AI doesn't immediately give up if 1 unit is on the best tile available, the obvious problem is if a real player realizes this and camps a unit in the way, you can force get the AI in a bad waiting loop.

    As an aside... I've seen the AI this patch send units ahead of the settler and seem to park on good city spots. I don't know if it was intentional, but it was an AI warrior sitting on a coastal river tile I wanted with plenty of space to explore and a few turns later it sent it's own settler on that exact tile. I did end up conquering it from him, but if that was intentional code, I was a impressed.
     
  7. Rosty K

    Rosty K King

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    Saga continues. After the war was over, they made another settler, and it's standing in the same spot :lol:

    However that's a rather weird game I'm having there, got a continents-like map (huge) seemingly with high water level and somehow there's lots of tundra (like half of the map is tundra if you add both sides). So there's not much good land to settle, to the point that I have two settlers recovered from barbarians in that tundra, and I'm keeping them for the time when new resources pop up, cause otherwise there's only tundra available. The AI seems to have this problem too, as there are quite a few settlers on the map which are just wandering around (and that's how I get them from barbarians later). As a result I don't even want to bother capturing one that's standing next to my crossbowman for the last era or so.

    There's lots of war going on this map though as a result. The AIs even managed to give me a hard time when they got 2 joint wars against me at the same time (though the most danger came from their City-State troops, I must admit). And they even eliminated one civ without my participation, not in the beginning, but in the Medieval era.
     
  8. Horizons

    Horizons Needing fed again!

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    There should be some kind of regroup logic built in to the AI when it gets invaded. Right now it sends everything at you at once, and as it builds new units it sends them straight out to the front where they get destroyed. They should keep them back, build corps and armies, and work a bit more strategically to pick off the invading forces. But I guess the alternative (much simpler) is to play a higher level and the AI will be producing more units because of its bonuses. :crazyeye:
     
  9. gettingfat

    gettingfat Emperor

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    I normally play at immortal. The AI still do a lot of silly things at that level like sending out unescorted settlers when the cities are under seige, continue the builder production when attacked, attacking my full health units on forested hills instead of killing the badly injured units, sending inquisitors outside their own borders, giving up zillions of gold and 3 relics to trade for a useless city.....
     
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  10. Futumch

    Futumch Calm as a Coma

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    First game (probably Prince level? I wanted an easy game) I played after the most recent patch (March '17), I had Arabia as a southern neighbour. They eventually received the last Great Prophet (Nigel Mansell), but Arabia just kept him parked in their capital for the entire game. They had a holy site and everything.

    Come to think of it, the prophet might not have been named Nigel Mansell. But I'm certainly going to edit the prophet names now, to make them kind of amusing.
     
  11. Tech Osen

    Tech Osen Emperor

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    It seems the AI sometimes thinks war is a good opportunity to send settlers through my realm because the borders are no longer closed or something. Maybe they are just refugees...
     
  12. Trias

    Trias Donkey with three behinds

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    I am not sure "diabolical" means what you think it does...

    This is a good example of a situation where it might be a good thing to allow the AI to cheat a bit, and know about units outside its visibility range. (Ideally restict to tile where it recently had visibility.) The alternative would some convoluted system where it tries to extrapolate from recent experience, but that probably would end up quite resource intensive and slow.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 14, 2017
  13. Rosty K

    Rosty K King

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    So, anyone interested in the fate of that settler?

    Well, at some point it decided to go and settle in a certain area of the map which everybody forgot about for millenia. There was a peninsula separated from the rest of the continent by mountains, and by the time everybody learned to embark it was naturally full of barbarians. So, late renaissance era, the AI finally decided to clear the place. There went two spearmen, 3 crossbowmen and a settler. And my privateer with spectators :D They did clear the area in 5 or 6 turns (though left the empty barb outpost), landed the settler, and... started healing their units, and they still didn't settle. So I decided to send my own settler and a knight there. 5 or so turns later they are still healing and not settling, my settler lands next to their settler. I thought they'd at least settle now, but no, next turn I found the city, cleared the outpost, and their settler went back into the water. Unfortunately I don't know if those poor guys would ever find their perfect spot as I won the cultural victory a couple turns later...
     
  14. CBE Player

    CBE Player Warlord

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    are you sure?... I see them act more intelligent on deity then on king. They definitely get more bonuses on higher levels yes but I think they are just slightly better decision makers also.
     
  15. CBE Player

    CBE Player Warlord

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    They are still leaving "much to be" on every level due to Firaxis' programing, but then I like the fact that they cannot beat me as much. Maybe some day they will get AI that learns from our mistakes and takes advantage of those.
     
  16. kaspergm

    kaspergm Deity

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    I think this is a bit of a damned-if-you-do, damned-if-you-don't situation when programming the AI. If they program the AI to give up the position immediately if someone blocks it, it's super easy to abuse for the human player. On the other hand, if they program the settler to wait for the spot to become free ... well, that's also rather easy to abuse, and results in less optimal usage of units for AI.

    In Civ5, AI did learn to settle less optimal positions if the best position got blocked. I think it was in G&K expansion it got tweaked that way - I have happy memories of settler-blocking in early versions at least. While this was not always the perfect solution, at least it made blocking the spot less meaningful for the human player. Often, it would be better to allow the AI to settle, if they got there first, and then capture the city, than it would be to have them settle in sub-optimal position and then have to either raze-and-rebuild the city or capture a sub-optimal city.

    In my current game, I physically blocked the path for an AI settler so that it could not reach the destination (had to pass between territory gap between two of my cities). That made the settler turn around and leave. I thought that was decent AI behavior. Of course, if unit walks back and then can't see the block, it will try again next turn - hard to prevent that if AI is to act meaningfully.
     

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