Diamondeye pushes for Emperor

We didn't see the cow in the opening screenshot as such 1E is better(worker 2 turns earlier, growth 3 turns earlier, by the time you reach size 2 if i focus just on production i have 3*4+2*2+5*1=19 production or exactly the chop you get by the time i am done with the farm, obviously stopping growth would be stupid at that point, but already at that point you can see the huge difference in development paths, if you follow this through to turn 40(where you got your first settler) i would further work double floodplain(+5) for 5 more turns(which is growth exactly to size 3) then work the pigs(+8) to size 4(4 turns unfortunatly, but 7 overflow into the next pop), this means that the worker finish the goldmine 2 turns after growing to size 4, since we want to hit size 5 the turn afterwards we would work grassland forest one turn and a grassland forest hill one turn(22 food in the bin), working the gold one turn then brings us to size 5(1 move, 12 worker, 7 until size 2, 5 until size 3, 4 until size 4, 3 until size 5, this means 32, obviously a settler is not going to take 7 turns at this point(though i would want to build a worker first), this means by the time you get your settler out, i will as well, i will have an additional worker, way more forests to chop, a size 5 city(you had size 2(!!)) and way more improvements(as well as having worked the gold for plenty of turns already))... Tech path should have been AG -> AH though... Definatly grow the capital one more pop before building another worker, what is up with so many people building workers and settlers with tons of food in the food bar`? Why is there no worker by your second city 10 turns ago? :'(. Get out the workers before the settlers not the other way around! Tech what you want but with this group teching writing -> alpha and trading for IW should be easy(and alpha is not all that much more expensive than iw anyways). Could obviously toss in pottery before that. No idea why you are focusing so much on demographics this early in the game, it hardly matters, but you want to prioritize FOOD! in the early game and so far you haven't done that at all(it'll cost you in the long run but of course this game is still salvagable). Food then production(either through whipping or the normal way) then commerce should come by just plopping down some riverside cottages and working the golds you have avilable... You got a pretty nutty position / surrounding land, please don't waste it :p.

Why the hate for desert hills? I would take peaks in my bfc with a good capital over a mediocre capital with 20 tiles any day.. This is one of the very best capitals i've seen(double floodplain, a good food resource, plenty of production and gold).

As long as you haven't started a new game it should be in your autosavedirectory.

oh i should probably structure my posts better eh?
 
Thanks for some gloves-off criticism, Oyzar, I was expecting something like this (and yes, your post is a bit unsttructured, but I get the main points)... I realize I spent way too many Worker turns on the mines compared to what use they are of. I like your suggestion of Writing->Alpha for trades - is this plausible even without Archery first or would I get flooded in barbs?

I'll post the 4000BC later today, and play next set (replies to this post before that are appreciated)...

I agree with Oyzar on the capitals potential - it looks fit to be a strong Bureaucracy capital!
 
Definatly archery before alpha. Even at emperor barbs are rough(i think at least :p), fighting with just warriors at this point is risky enough as it is.. Also pottery might be an idea since it gives you 20% more prereq bonus on writing and pottery isn't a tech you want to trade for anyways... Either pottery -> hunting -> archery -> writing -> alpha or hunting -> archery -> pottery -> writing -> alpha would work(second is less risky, though obviously whipping a granary in capital would be decent).

Don't forget to grow one more size before building the worker in the capital(just build a placeholder like henge for 1 turn since you can't start on either archers or granary which are your next builds anwyays). Also you should probably start on a worker in your second city and whip it as soon as possible(it is size 2 right?), do this before finishing the warrior.

Oh and you are running binary research right?
 
Yeah, grab archery first. Also you should scout a bit more. Perhaps you can squeeze in another city or two at good spots! Maybe they have calender resources, etc - my point is that it is hard to tell you what to tech right now without that knowledge.

Though writing is always a good tech to get :) maybe you'd want to grab ironworking before that if you have plans of invading a neighbour, or at least to severely cripple one by taking his capitol. Game on!
 
Definatly archery before alpha. Even at emperor barbs are rough(i think at least :p), fighting with just warriors at this point is risky enough as it is.. Also pottery might be an idea since it gives you 20% more prereq bonus on writing and pottery isn't a tech you want to trade for anyways... Either pottery -> hunting -> archery -> writing -> alpha or hunting -> archery -> pottery -> writing -> alpha would work(second is less risky, though obviously whipping a granary in capital would be decent).

Don't forget to grow one more size before building the worker in the capital(just build a placeholder like henge for 1 turn since you can't start on either archers or granary which are your next builds anwyays). Also you should probably start on a worker in your second city and whip it as soon as possible(it is size 2 right?), do this before finishing the warrior.

Oh and you are running binary research right?

From now on, yes I am. And I'll grow the city first... Putting some hammers into Henge might help Binary research with a lump of gold later on.

I think I will go Hunting->Archery first, no risks this early seems like a good policy.

Yeah, grab archery first. Also you should scout a bit more. Perhaps you can squeeze in another city or two at good spots! Maybe they have calender resources, etc - my point is that it is hard to tell you what to tech right now without that knowledge.

Though writing is always a good tech to get :) maybe you'd want to grab ironworking before that if you have plans of invading a neighbour, or at least to severely cripple one by taking his capitol. Game on!

Point taken. With those enemies and no copper I don't think I will be on the offensive soon, but I like the idea Oyzar presented - trading Alpha for IW.

I'll get around to playing it asap.

EDIT: 4000 BC save attached to this post.
 
Okay, here's the next 20 turns!

First, Machiavelli, that sneaky bastard, decides to tell the entire world just how weak the English empire is:


... And a warrior move discovers the first barbarian Archer:


... Resulting in the loss of a warrior. Also, as you might notice, the Settler is able to found my third city this turn, on the spot I decided on earlier (someone mentioned going 1W, but I decided to stick with the original decision), so he does that. The borders reveal another rivals scout:



... A Warrior decides to take a sneak peek at the barb city south of Nottingham (and I manage to catch a rather unfortunate event aswell):


... Some turns later, the anti-Slavery policy goes down the drain:


(and don't worry, I changed Londons build, it isn't putting more hammers into SH).

... oyzars suggestion as to putting hammers into SH pays off:


... Some scouting results;



... And Archers arrive just in time;



... The attackers all die. And I lose my eastern warrior to a barb archer.

So at turn 70, things look like this:

 
I would have settled city #3 on the remaining gold/floodplain site. I know you hadn't fully explored at that time, but your city site is clearly inferior. I realize you would have had to reroute your settler, but it would have been worth it.

No offense, just pointing it out.
 
Definatly archery before alpha. Even at emperor barbs are rough(i think at least :p),
I guess it's been too long since you played the level? :lol: Warriors are quite capable of dealing with the barbs until the axemen show up. Yeah. You might get pillaged once or twice. The flip side is wasting tech turns and investing money in more expensive units. On top of that, archers almost at bad at stopping pillaging as warriors. Get the freekin chariots on line.
 
I guess it's been too long since you played the level? :lol: Warriors are quite capable of dealing with the barbs until the axemen show up. Yeah. You might get pillaged once or twice. The flip side is wasting tech turns and investing money in more expensive units. On top of that, archers almost at bad at stopping pillaging as warriors. Get the freekin chariots on line.

Axeman may show up as early as 1500 BC, and warriors are just hopeless against it. If two first cities can't connect metals or horse, skipping archery is more or less a gambit.
 
You do not want warriors defending from barb archers, expecially when they start swarming in groups. On emperor you probably should try to get chariots or axemen online by around 2500 BC... maybe, I'm not positive. I know on Immortal the barb archers start attacking ~3000 BC, don't get much slack there.
 
You do not want warriors defending from barb archers, expecially when they start swarming in groups. On emperor you probably should try to get chariots or axemen online by around 2500 BC... maybe, I'm not positive. I know on Immortal the barb archers start attacking ~3000 BC, don't get much slack there.
On Emperor, they don't swarm in groups. Never. Two max. And then only VERY rarely. There is a BIG difference between Emperor and Immortal in this regard. Even on Immortal, there are many maps where you have no need to fear the barbs.

On this map at Immortal, I would be afraid at this point (north, large). But it's not Immortal so there is no prob. Even at this level, I would have claimed the horses long before now. I hate getting pillaged. I would not have researched Archers. And still wouldn't. Archers are not good at stopping pillaging and, at this level, I have no fear of them taking my cities.

What I would do given this situation at a higher level is a completely different question. Not sure. I would definitely be scared. But I wouldn't be in this position because I would have had the horsies long ago.
 
Nice game so far. I read the thread, yeah you should build that farm in capital earlier :D. Here's few of my tips for next session(s):

I suggest building a Settler for those Horses asap (if you don't have Iron close). That spot isnt very good but it can net you Horses+Incencse+Gold in BFG, and some cottages, windmills later on, so it will become decent city. Trade Alphabet for IW, let the settler be ready to grab iron spot. If it happens that you have iron in your borders, hope so, there's seems to be some nice land SE of York.


Since you have bad neighbours you need good army, so get one of Iron/Horses. I'd take both :) I like Knights.

Also for comfortable emperor play you should kill at least one neighbour, is that Shaka close ?! Get rid of him with Swords or Horse Archers + Catapults. That means also you should get Construction -> which should be priority, AI will certainly research Mathematics so you can trade for it. I guess you can try without Catapults but you might have trouble capturing the capital.

Then its safe to go for Literature for Great Library if you want, but I found its often much better to get techs like Currency, Construction, and CoL before Literature. Reason for this is that AIs are ignoring Literature path in 95% of my games.

In the long run I would probably want Academies in both York and Capital, you should consider that (GL should help with GS).
 
4000 BC save = shadow lately for me ;).

A large map with normal speed puts some pressure on, but this is true for everyone. I usually play epic but can adjust for any speed except quick.

To 25 AD (where I briefly look good before sagging to average)

Spoiler :
Ok. I settled on the plains hill 1E because that speeds up the early game and that's usually all I care about.

I was thinking Gwall like usual for large maps but meeting 3 AIs in rapid succession changed my mind.

Then, shaka settled the gold/FP site to the south early. Nobamba, huh. I decided to do the logical thing. What's the logical thing you ask? Well, take the settler, walk it east, and plant it right on top of the horses for one of the crappiest cities ever, just to fuel a chariot rush. Against a civ with a spear UU and a leader who is tied for 1st in buildunitprob.



Die shaka. Oh. Note in this screenshot, that if you look carefully, you can see iron in shaka's city to the SE there. What? No, REALLY carefully. This is ONE of several reasons I play with yields on at all times (along with finding new landmasses with border pops and because I'm used to it). Yes, that plains is 1f 2H, unimproved. That means that with BW/AH, shaka can see a resource that I cannot on that tile. The possibilities are really pretty narrow at this point. As you can see, this wasn't a rush executed blind. I KNOW he doesn't have metal!



Hey, um. I CALL GLITCH! Second time this is happening to me in a forum game. This'll go under bug reports too. An expelled scout should not magically appear on my stack and push it out of its tile, although I was lucky enough for it to not matter this time.

GK gave me an instant -1 for this. Oh joy, pleased AIs before religion or open border bonuses. Really cool, man.

Now granted, I'd scouted Shaka ahead of time for copper and he had none, so I knew I'd have a shot. I grabbed nobamba and the capitol. I then went for the next city which had 4 (!) archers. That's not going to fall to 8 chariots...cease fire w/o even trying it.



Sorry shaka, this peace was a false alarm.

I take the city shown, then loop back up to another city (where a worker was mining a flatland plains...hmmmmmmm). I take that and burn it since it's got no food:



I also take peace after this. Taking shaka's remaining cities at this point would be costly, and they're not very good just yet. I want to settle to block the AIs more, so shaka can wait.

State of empire, 25 AD:





To 1610 AD (IMO a legit cutoff after last segment!

Spoiler :
Ok this was mostly settling backfill cities everywhere. I got heroic epic up in the capitol and picked up construction for cats. Classical and medieval war isn't easy on normal but it's not impossible. I wasn't initially planning war in this period though, other than that I felt GK being pissy over my 2x declaring on shaka might draw me a war even if I didn't want it. So, I didn't push hard for new military techs and instead went economy stuff, although I did shop CS for feudalism and philosophy/drama for machinery eventually.

In 500 AD it seems that GK wanted a closer target first:



Fred asks for help but I decline for now. Eventually they make peace after a stalemate.

In 980 AD I finally bother to try to polish shaka off:



I intended this as a precursor to war with GK, and to get him out of the way so I could maneuver better. Now, shaka didn't have jack !@#%$ to bribe with of course, but that never stops the AI:



D'oh. Again, not exactly shocking news. In fact, I had my cities waypointed to the very city GK attacked and that's not a coincidence!

Shaka isn't saved.



GK comes, and he pulls reinforcements from beyond what you see here, but nothing some siege damage and a bunch o archer doesn't stop up.



I take one city, and then GK puts excessive pressure on a Shaka city (read: ridiculous RNG luck). I solve it with cease fire!



But again, not for long.



Somehow Washington gave me a -1 for declaring on GK but that's fine. GK needs to die.

That said, he has a buildunitprob of 35 (2nd tier warmonger in terms of troop spam, quite vicious), and he got maces just as I declared. Fun. I had maces too, and had pikes before he had guilds. I made this a plodding war. I wasn't under threat of backstabs since none of the remaining AIs that knew me would do it. WW wasn't bad because I had CR III trebs out of the gate in my heroic epic capitol pretty early in the war. GK isn't protective so even his muskets toward the end were pretty much failure to CR III trebs made every other turn (I was also using this city to spit some high promotion HAs for stack D, since they're versatile and great anti-xbow). Of course I had a super medic too.

Eventually I cut city after city down:



And the eternal war came to a close:



Now, here's a little bonus from earlier. Here's an example of where fireaxis bent over and dropped a deuce while programming. I can't believe they thought this was ok:



Friendly at +7, huh. It's very similar between washington and fred, too. Hidden modifiers. +4 at least, possibly more. I actually have a higher net displayed, but only have them pleased. If fred, washington, or SB builds the UN while still iin buddhism I'd stand a SERIOUS chance to lose.

HOWEVER, I lost that route in LHC Brennus. I won't let it happen this time. This time, the UN cheese will go in MY favor. Bend over, AIs........


To 1878 UN win.

Spoiler :
I was pretty backward in 1610 AD. I didn't have lib, gunpowder, printing press, or anything. I just had a lot of cities. However, this pays off. I beelined things the AI didn't have (down the steel line initially). Meeting ram/toku I was able to trade a bit with Ram (my neighbors hated toku) for pre-reqs. I traded steel for democracy pre-reqs, then was actually able to trade demo to one AI after researching it. Then, right as I was finishing Demo I burned 2 GPs (however, the game cheated a 3rd time here, and despite my selecting GE/Gspy it burned GE/GM gay gay gay gay gay. Nonetheless, I powered through Demo/Economics and switched to US/Eman/FM (was already in FM/OR). Between this and spamming only beaker/gold multiplier buildings (as I had 0 threat of war) my beakers shot up fast. I got to physics 2nd and traded it. Electricity and the rest of the mass media line were first and I brokered them a lot. I easily got to mass media before anyone had radio. Then, I gifted radio and mass media to ONLY ramesses.



See, now the wonderwhore is very likely to build UN before anyone else (almost guaranteed). I am #1 in pop. So guess who isn't going to be eligible? That's right, hidden modifier peaceweight whore TMIT island neighbors. They'll ALL be voting for ME to win. Suck that, AI.

Ram makes short work of not only UN but several of the wonders on the way. I only beat him to cristo redentor (which I GE rushed). The first vote SB was in FR and not yet in environmentalism (only recently teched/gifted that to him).



So it flops. No worries though. I had this win locked up the second I beat GK.



OR was plenty, but I sent him into his favorite civic, too. Freddy and washington each had a -1 demerit with me. However, they also had favorite civic boosts, shared religion, open borders, shared resources, fair trade, and years of peace. Not just friendly, WAY friendly! SB was pretty ridiculous too.







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The tip for me is reaching 3-4 cities before the barb animals turn into warriors and archers. Even then they may not attack you.

I do like to have 3-4 cities by 1800bc. I would of gone worker worker at start if you are not teching AH. The problem is when you reach 1300bc the Ai has axemen/archers roaming unless you are near an AI.

I did wonder why you started stone henge so close to 2000bc. Thats taking a few risks on emperor.

Yet you can always rely on TMIT to post a warmongers game. Be interesting to see him do a chariot rush on sitting bull. I have a monarch save that he might find fun. ;)
 
Okies for the start.
Spoiler :

I moved onto the plains hills. Imperialist leader!!

I built a settler in 15 turns. (Almost same time as a worker)

I then built a worker in both my cities.

I then went worker, settler, great wall in capital. I used four workers to chop this around 2000bc or so.

I used the gold and the pastures as a size 2 city capital. With overflows it was building settlers in 5/6 turns.

I need to tech something useful now as i have very few build options. Wheel might help for chariots.

On a plus side I have the highest score of those who i have met.

I would of had the 4th city earlier had i not done the great wall.



 
Spoiler :
Actually looking at screenshot I was second highest in score. Also great wall in 1840bc. Note the date york was founded. 3240bc. Thats 840 years ahead of Diamonds game.

I dont understand why people dont go Settler first on imperialist leaders. Especially when you have plains/hills and a forest tile with 2-3 production nearby. If you get both plains hill and a forest with 3 production you have a huge head start.

I get the growth thing but in 840 years i am sure you can build a worker and warrior in another city and grow it to size 2/3.

Looking at my game there is a great city SW of my capital with gold resource. I will probably rush out chariots as i have no copper. I may actually play this game when i have some time.

Thats if I ever finish a game on here. :mad:

I am still on the learning path for emperor and I am yet to win my first game. Although my egyptian game is looking very strong at mo. My GP farm was nearly at 200GP points a turn under golden age around 1400ad.


In general the main difference moving up to Emperor seems to be faster teching and a lot of archers at start. Maybe a few free techs as well. Am i missing something?
 
Nice Gumbolt, that gave me some great ideas for future games with Imperialistic leaders.

You'll end up addicted to those leaders. There s a nice JoaII rexxing game to try on another post here.
 
I did wonder why you started stone henge so close to 2000bc. Thats taking a few risks on emperor.

... I never wanted to acually get the wonder. I put hammers into it while growing (needed one turn to size 4 before building worker) - Stonehenge would be a fine source of gold when it was built iafal.

Sorry for the lack of updates, I will get something done soon, today or tomorrow, I had an all-night LAN with two friends, so I haven't really slept...
 
Hey, um. I CALL GLITCH! Second time this is happening to me in a forum game. This'll go under bug reports too. An expelled scout should not magically appear on my stack and push it out of its tile, although I was lucky enough for it to not matter this time.

This is why I have taken to DoWing in the Talking Head window instead of on the field. ALT-Click does it too. Waiting to see where their units pop off too is often solid info to have, even though this time it didnt matter for you.

Looks like a definite bug though.
 
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