Diamondeye pushes for Emperor

[Diamondeye]

Argh!

I am editing it atm, here's 2nd half:

Turn 101: Diamondeye The Puny:


There's good and there's bad. Good is, I am better than my likely enemies; Shaka and Genghis. Bad is, both Washington and SB, as well as the other, unkown continent, is ahead of me.

Based on the fact that an unkown capital has Stonehenge and Kashi Vishwanath, I am guessing that either Saladin, Ramesses or Wang Kon is in the game.

Turn 103: For the sake of friendship...


What one doesn't do for friends, huh? Anyway, I decided to give in, since Alpha is loose among AIs already. In return, I gain Pleased with Sitting Bull, and:


Open up the road to Monarchy!

The scouting archer in Zulu lands:

Mouseover kwaDukuza
What wicked gods have given this fella Horses, Copper and two Irons? That is insane! Ah well, the ressources will serve the English empire well later. Hs doesn't seem to be insanely powerful...

Notice his idiocy concerning promotions:

Mouseover Ulundi

A Guerilla archer in the flatland city and a cover axeman...

I find out why Shaka has so few troops. I actually though he was going for Mids when I saw the stone (the turn before this), so I had to pat myself for guessing correctly:


Even more shinies for the English empires once we're done with him.

I decide to plant a spy (used for exploring his lands before) in the Mids city to lower defenses when the war comes. The border city is so poorly defended that I can take it despite Hill/Walls with few casualties. I think.

Turn 109: The fall of Minoan:


Props to Genghis for helping out (his sword killed 2 of the 5 archers).

I accept a rather biased trade with Washington on the final turn:


... Since i have beakers in Monarchy already, this isn't really a good trade, but it saves me three turns teching and gives 50 bucks for further deficit.

Turn 110: Overview:


I have not yet changed civics (then again, I haven't passed the turn either). Should I do this immidiately? It would be a +1 happiness boost in all cities, two in the eastern city (which has a spearman to avoid a nasty surprise when the time comes)...



I realize I misinterpret this screen last turnset. Shaka does not know maths. So, no accidental Zulu catties.



Tech tree. I am thinking either Feudalism (for LBs, Vassalage, CS) or MC->Machinery. Although the Aesthetics line might still make sense (Shaka has both Marble and Stone in the target cities).



I am almost as powerful as Shaka (and no longer the weakest; 8th of 9).

EDIT: Fixed my gross mispost. Saves for turns 100 and 110 are attached. The report for the turns 90 thru 100 is on the bottom of the previous page (for those with 20 posts/page, atleast).

 

[Joshua368]

Normally there would be no reason to not go into Hereditary Rule right away (other than racing for a wonder or something) but in this case... do you think you'll be able to capture the pyramids real soon? You might just want to skip it for representation.

Though then again the extra happiness would be handy for whipping troops so it might be worthwhile anyway.

(also, why doesn't monotheism have organized religion in your tech screen?)

 

[Diamondeye]

Normally there would be no reason to not go into Hereditary Rule right away (other than racing for a wonder or something) but in this case... do you think you'll be able to capture the pyramids real soon? You might just want to skip it for representation.

Though then again the extra happiness would be handy for whipping troops so it might be worthwhile anyway.

(also, why doesn't monotheism have organized religion in your tech screen?)

I don't think I will be able to take Mids for another... 20 turns. Around that.

I have scrolled the techtree to show Vassalage, so some of the leftmost techs are partly out of sight.

 

[Artichoker]

Normally there would be no reason to not go into Hereditary Rule right away (other than racing for a wonder or something) but in this case... do you think you'll be able to capture the pyramids real soon? You might just want to skip it for representation.

Though then again the extra happiness would be handy for whipping troops so it might be worthwhile anyway.

(also, why doesn't monotheism have organized religion in your tech screen?)

There is a reason, actually...making just 1 civics change costs the same amount of Anarchy as 2 civics changes. So waiting until a 2nd civics change is to be made will actually save 1 turn of Anarchy.

 

[Gumbolt]

I now see where TMIT went wrong on his game. He should of waited for shaka to build the mids. Not the obvious choice wonder for Shaka to get first. I honestly thought the Germans would have built that first. (Not checked leaders traits.)

 

[Soirana]

Let sort things out.

Shaka is in police state. It is his favorite civ and he is... Well, i would be surprised if he builds anything else than ikhandas, troops and... stables.

He is not really backwards yet as he has HA on the whole world and a free forge via pyramids to spam them.

So teching feudalism might not be that bad choice.

On other front Genghis has full hands and has worst enemy in Fred. Migt be nice time to.

IMO, if you had a window of attack on Shaka it is rapidly closing. And when i see all this forests still standing...
The only real option i see is if Gengis attacks Fred bribe Shaka in and while his stack is gone make your move.

Besides if you plan using spoy you should had focussed espionage, you won't have enough points in reasonable time.

 

[Diamondeye]

Soirana, if I have assesed Shakas forces right, I will be able to take the first 3-4 cities easily (including Mids city). Then, when he has capital and junglevillages, it should be possible to lock him down. Taking Ulundi aswell (with some luck) would completely rid him off tactical resources. I definately think it is doable.

I have discussed the techpath with Oyzar on MSN, and perhaps going CoL->CivilS for Bureacracy is the best option. After that, MC->Mach would open up maces if I need that.

Feudalism for Vassalage and the ability to vassalize Shaka should I not be able to take him down would be a nice path aswell, but obviously the tech isn't really usable for anything else. It is not really a tradeable tech as most AIs get it early. More like a tech I should buy later...

 

[TheMeInTeam]

I now see where TMIT went wrong on his game. He should of waited for shaka to build the mids. Not the obvious choice wonder for Shaka to get first. I honestly thought the Germans would have built that first. (Not checked leaders traits.)

I rushed SHAKA with CHARIOTS, and you say where I went wrong was not waiting for a top class warmonger to build a WONDER .

I'd much rather spawn next to shaka than gilgamesh though, oftentimes.

 

[Gumbolt]

Even warmongers have their use.

I dont know why everyone takes out Shaka so early. Just because he is aggressive.

Which is a new thread I was thinking about.

Leaders you feel most sorry for.

I am sure among all these civ 4 players on here there is a heart somewhere. Hopefully Cathy/Izzy or Boudica wouldnt top the list.

 

[oyzar]

He is taking shaka out not because he is a warmonger but because he is the best target... he get both the mids and frees up all the land to the east...

 

[Gumbolt]

He was the closest AI.

I may continue my game of this once i finish another game.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Yeah...I just decided on shaka because "HE TOOK MY GOLD CITY".

Although the real reason is that meant we'd be sharing a border sooner than him and any other civ, making me a likely target. Might as well get rid of him first.

Not unique to my game is the amount of room to the east...try to block it!

 

[Joshua368]

There is a reason, actually...making just 1 civics change costs the same amount of Anarchy as 2 civics changes. So waiting until a 2nd civics change is to be made will actually save 1 turn of Anarchy.

Ah, right. Been I while since I played Normal speed, Epic doesn't allow this trick. (two changes cost two turns early on)

 

[DMOC]

Even warmongers have their use.

I dont know why everyone takes out Shaka so early. Just because he is aggressive.

Which is a new thread I was thinking about.

Leaders you feel most sorry for.

I am sure among all these civ 4 players on here there is a heart somewhere. Hopefully Cathy/Izzy or Boudica wouldnt top the list.

If you fail to take out the warmongerers early, then they will take you out.

 

[Gumbolt]

I think that is true of any over powered civ that you have to bring them down a peg. Especially Willem. Financial and seems to build military well.

Thats being said i just got my first domination win on emperor today using the Egyptians. Wooot. I finished a game.

Even sitting bull was no match for me. To be fair I was getting 2000-3000 science a turn come 1830ad.

Might have time to give this game a go now.

 

[futurehermit]

If you fail to take out the warmongerers early, then they will take you out.

This may be true, but it does depend on the diplo situation. I try to go by the rule of thumb "attack soft targets early and hard targets late" since the soft targets won't have much military early and the hard targets will fall behind in tech by mid-to-late game.

So, whenever I see someone like Shaka or Monty, unless it is necessary to rush them (some cases it is necessary), then I will use "bend over" diplomacy (i.e., do whatever they want whenever) in order to become buddies with them.

In the cases where this works it means when I attack an AI I am doing so with Shaka or Monty as a war ally, which usually spells doom for the soft target AI. You do have to be careful though that the AI doesn't vassalize to Shaka or Monty, which can be problematic.

It just all depends on the diplo situation.

 

[Diamondeye]

I like the discussion of Shaka, but I was actually looking for some criticism on my last 20 turns, any more feedback would be welcome, I count on playing the next set tomorrow.

 

[_invy_]

I know diplo is important but it seems to me you are too generous, dont give the techs like Alphabet for free. Thats quite a boost for the AI, let them stay in dark if possible

Nicely done so far, not much criticism to be made.. I guess. Fill up the available space and kill an AI.

 

[PaulusIII]

I know diplo is important but it seems to me you are too generous, dont give the techs like Alphabet for free. Thats quite a boost for the AI, let them stay in dark if possible

Nicely done so far, not much criticism to be made.. I guess. Fill up the available space and kill an AI.

Bull's one of the AI's of which you can usually refuse demands. I've rarely seen him follow through on one of his threats. But then again, he usually becomes so backwards it doesn't matter anyway.

My advice: Spam catapults and go kill somebody. If Shaka has somehow spammed his usual numbers of units you can always attack Fred instead.

 

[Diamondeye]

Okay, basically, I decided to play 30 turns because there was lots of war to attend and I didn't feel that 20 turns was a natural stopping point. Actually I don't think this is either, but more like one:

First, the first DoW is not mine:


Okay, fair game! The real thing is on, let's have some war on this continent!

Of course, I don't DoW yet, I need to prepare! Warring with Shaka without proper precautions can be fatal!



It looks as if he wants to settle more eastern lands. His Settler never gets around to it though, and I assemble a small stack to take care of the city when I DoW.

Now, something that caught me completely by surprise!





Shaka and Genghis? I thought they were buddies! Anyway, I guess that means that Shaka has fewer troops for me! I tell myself the DoW needs to come soon now!

So next turn...



I saw a gap in the defenses (only Impi and one other unit vs my axes and swords), and take the chance! The city is razed!

And I proceed to press Shaka, this time on the other front:



I had two cats, I suicided them to soften the defenders (50% walls would take forever to bomb). The attack went smooth after that!

While my stacks heal, Buddhism spreads to my lands; I decide now is not the time for Anarchy (I have already used a turn on HR), and I need to keep attention on the war!



... I don't really know why, but I tech Feudalism. I guess I wanted vassalage (but haven't switched), and LBs... Anyway, I immidiately pick CoL next (Confu is founded by SB, I think, the turn before I get CoL).

Later, I find a zulu town further east, and raze it:



And I am not giving in to any more demands, especially not german!



I slap him off, Cathy-style.

So, when the turn ends, I have Currency, Vassalage, CoL and is on my way to CivilService. My cities are beginning to grow large, but the war is annoying. I have traded for Dyes with Genghis.

Shaka has taken Angle, I will turn my attention to it later, for now, the fronts are these:





My Spy got caught a couple of turns before, so I guess I can adjust my esp spending now... I am counting on outproducing Shaka and taking these two cities, then go for peace (not Vassalization, that'll hurt relations).

Overview:


I'll go straight for Bureau, no Vassalage here.

And techs (I am doing rather okay!):



Last, but not least: Power! Notice Shaka!



Save is attached. All feedback is welcome! Hit me! There has to be lots of comments on this, I am sure I did lots of stuff wrong!