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did civ 6 improve after latest patch?

Discussion in 'Civ6 - General Discussions' started by pietro1990, May 8, 2017.

  1. unpossible251

    unpossible251 Warlord

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    Yes, its getting better. But still not great. It can pull out some threatening tactics in the early eras, but starts to slump mid game.
     
  2. Victoria

    Victoria Regina Supporter

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    Nice, once a friendship is declared they will always agree to an alliance which I strongly recommend

    @Uberfrog feedback if you think alliances are worth it, I would be interested in people's opinions. To me just the intel alone I find invaluable, I no longer have to explore the map and seeing troop movements outside my visibility is superb for war strategists.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 16, 2017
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  3. oedali

    oedali King

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    Yes I find alliances extremely useful. I tend to go for religious victory and it lets me see where those AI missionary/apostles are so I can go after or avoid them. Even better is if you are competing with your ally's religion - you know exactly where their religious units are, all the time so no surprises
     
  4. Futumch

    Futumch Calm as a Coma

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    A tiny bit. Baby steps.
     
  5. Eliminator_Sr

    Eliminator_Sr Prince

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    I generally understand how diplomacy works, I just don't like the way it works and I think it could be much better. Of course, I'm not going to expend the effort to keep track of every single modifer/mechanic when there is no compelling reason to do so. FWIW I never raze cities and rarely declare surprise wars after the ancient era and I still get huge negative modifiers. I do capture a lot of cities but mainly when an AI declares war on me first. It's fine if you enjoy it but I would rather just level an AI and strengthen my empire in the process - it's a far more efficient path to victory IMO and for me far more satisfying.
     
  6. Victoria

    Victoria Regina Supporter

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    It seems to be more complicated than I thought... There is a score value which seems to be the difference between the 2 civs views of each other andthe AI I suspect uses ths. The trouble is it assumes we are an AI player for those feelings... So was about to ask teddy for friendship when HE declares for on Cyrus and the score plumments and now he is not sure he wants to be my friend and I suspect ot may be to do with that... but may be barking up the wrong tree... keeping a track of it all is a right pain
     
  7. Uberfrog

    Uberfrog Deity

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    It took me a week to continue playing, but here's my feedback :) :-

    I think Alliances seem to be a no-brainer at the moment. As you said earlier, if you have a friendship declared, they seem to automatically accept the Alliance. In diplomatic terms, it's an easy extra +11 (might have got that number wrong, but it's around that) to your relationship. Admittedly, if you declare an alliance with someone's enemy, they're going to have a bigger penalty with you (around -5 I think), but you need to double down with diplomacy in this game and pick your friends. The relationship bonus alone means an Alliance is a good buffer against negative penalties you might have accrued with warmongering, different governments, religions, competing with wonders, etc. Allies will tolerate a lot more bad behaviour on your part than an ordinary Friend will, until of course the Alliance ends.

    Then as you say there's the intel - including revealing portions of the map where Natural Wonders and City States might be. I found a bunch of CS, and the Dead Sea from declaring Allies with the three friends I mentioned before. So it was a pretty good deal :). Map sharing à la Civ IV is back, after a fashion.

    Making friends got a little boring, so I decided I'd declare a (Joint, of course) war on Alexander just 'cause. Because I didn't quite understand how Joint Wars worked (I didn't realise the war was declared as soon as the deal was made, probably a hangover from Civ V thinking :p ), I declared along with Harald. I guess this counts as a surprise war for everyone except your partner in crime, but with Cyrus' ability the penalty for that was a modest -15 to -20 or so depending on how much each AI hates warmongers (Cleo didn't seem to think I was a warmonger at all). I took one city and got another in the peace deal, and my warmonger penalty is beginning to fade. Even Mvemba, who, once the alliance and friendship ran out had plummeted to a +3 net relation score, has been won back around into friendship. So declaring a small amount of (ahem) tactical war doesn't seem to jeopardise your relationships too much. The only people who hate me are the ones who always hated me - only Gandhi likes me significantly less than before the war, which is of course, working as intended.

    So yeah, in summary: Alliances are good and have hardly any drawbacks if you have the friends, and modest warmongering does not have to spiral you into being a social pariah, so long as you don't go too mad and, of course, you're only hurting Alexander.
     
    leandrombraz likes this.
  8. Zuizgond

    Zuizgond Prince

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    At this pace, come back in 5 or 6 AI patches.
     
  9. Victoria

    Victoria Regina Supporter

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    great.. thanks.

    +18 for an alliance
    +9 for friendship
    +6 for joint war with them and a joint war always counts as a formal not a surprise. This is important as this initial WM penalty is used to decide the cost of each city you take also.
    +8 for alliance with a friend of a another civ. (the files say +6-8)
    -8 for alliance with the enemy of another civ. (the files say +6-8)

    The above sort of encourages you to be friends with a large group. When you have over +50 which is not that hard you can afford quite a bit of warmongering.

    I am still struggling with what an enemy is. Its certainly those you are at war with but it does not seem to include all those denounced.
     
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  10. cll3

    cll3 Chieftain

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    Nah I don't think you should regret it imo. I bought it on pre-order and looking back, I will say it sucked for the a good long while, with all the old bugs and imbalances. The only reason I played it was because it was new. But now? I'd say in its current state, everything after Australia patch, it's actually very good, and finally worth buying. It wasn't always this good...

    The AI is still weak as expected, but yes it has improved. I'd go as far as to say that this game, and its AI, have improved with every patch so far, even the small ones that weren't really announced on reddit or whatever. Related to my comment to about the state of the game on release... the first stealth hotfix for unit selling was huge; unit selling ruined release pretty much. Removing stacking IZ radii was the next huge thing. Basically every game un-losable, playing any civ, if you use IZ stacking in midgame, assuming you survived early game aggression.

    AI army unit composition change was medium to big; the AI will upgrade, and also frequently have corps and armies. City targeting algorithm has improved slightly (before it would simply target the lowest defense unit, allowing you to dance scouts around while archers take freebies, dance warriors around while crossbows take freebies etc) You can still do this to a large extent but the AI will change targets now, at least sometimes.

    Tech tree change was small, but still nice. AI also employs "cheats" on higher difficulties above its advertised bonuses, which are necessary. If you're only playing on deity or multiplayer by now, then any AI edge is welcome. AI also guards its early game settlers better now (supposedly). They still un-link at the most inopportune times though... yoink.... Turn 10 on deity is still like a free settler BBQ no matter which direction you send your first warrior, because the AIs don't send out the last free settler till turn ~10.

    AI city defense unit placement is still abysmal though... they need to swarm to defend your point of attack. Not put one of each of their best units at each city on fortify while you seige one city at a time. There are many early game wars that should be unwinnable if they just yolo everything at you, but nope the AI purposefully spreads itself out thin, with half their units doing nothing fortifying some other city.

    Diplomacy is still a mess. If you're winning hard enough they'll all hate you anyways by late game, especially on deity. I've never gone past turn 600/1500 or 200/500 without everyone hating me. So now I just give zero fks about diplo all game.

    Additional food for thought...
    -Why is 1 GPT valued higher than 30 static gold in trading? 1 GPT has much less net present value than 30 gold. Gold today is obviously worth more than gold tomorrow. Formula needs some changing.
    -Pre-war scamming. trade all stuff for static gold before declaring war. too easy.
    -Nonsensical barbarian production. Sometimes it'll sit there doing nothing, other times it'll poop a horseman out every single turn. My solution on huge maps has been to sit units (and the useless GPs) all over the place to clear fog of war, and when one camp spawns, engage the spear/pike/AT guarding it on the first turn, which stymies the camp's production. And then guard it on alert for the rest of the game, never clearing it to minimize new camps spawning somewhere else.
     
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  11. leandrombraz

    leandrombraz Emperor

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    One thing that I really like in Civ VI diplomacy is how even a leader that denounced you the whole game can be turned into an ally with enough effort, unless you have a ridiculously high warmongering penalty that got completely out of control. If you pay attention on how diplomacy works, you have a level of control that Civ V never had.
     
  12. SammyKhalifa

    SammyKhalifa Deity

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    So let's pretend for a second that I'm a veteran to the civ series but haven't really done much with VI since purchase. Not really because I didn't like the new game; just that I have been busy doing other things, and when I did get to firing up a game couldn't really keep interested for some reason. That I played just enough to realize I needed to get more archers, and that I need to be better with districts, but not much past that. This is an incredible stretch of a hypothetical I know.

    What should I be looking for in the latest patches and the game in general that will get me going again?
     
  13. rschissler

    rschissler King

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    Since your tone is so pessimistic, l'd say later patches won't be enough to get you going again. Most people think the AI in combat is the biggest flaw, and I tend to agree. I think the worst problem is that the AI doesn't upgrade much, and hardly builds any units, and of course tactics suck too. City-States are more of a threat than an entire AI civ. I think AI poor performance and lack of units is a direct side effect of 1UPT, but I'm sure some people don't want to bring that up again.

    Sure the devs might do some tweaks to the AI, but it will probably be limited and not enough to satisfy.
     
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  14. SammyKhalifa

    SammyKhalifa Deity

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    I wouldn't say I'm pessimistic, just having a hard time initially getting "into it."
     
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  15. Acken

    Acken Deity

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    Yes but I'll still wait for the expansion to see if they manage to improve it like GnK did.
     
  16. DizzKneeLand33

    DizzKneeLand33 Fall from Heaven 2 still rocks

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    I keep hearing about how the AI doesn't upgrade units, and this was true in the beginning. However, I can assure you that in my latest game (Immortal, post patch) the AI had nothing but upgraded units. Sometimes they will keep the UU around too long, but I think my units were less upgraded than the AI.

    Is the AI not upgrading on lower levels?

    As a side note, when Russia took over a City State next to my territory and had too few amenities, barbarian cossacks spawned. Of course, instead of attacking the problem (the now Russian city), they decided to take a stroll through my territory instead.... :rolleyes:
     
  17. Victoria

    Victoria Regina Supporter

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    Non upgraded claims are not from people who play the game now or they are whining about a single unit or a civ with a peaceful agenda that takes priority.
     
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  18. WackenOpenAir

    WackenOpenAir Deity

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    The diplomacy might work if you choose to play less agressive than would be the obvious choise.
    The game pushes you towards aggression in so many ways. You have to start with some units because of barbs. If you start with units and dont conquer some neighbour, it was a waste, so you better just as well open full force.
    Your gold, science and faith all depend on many cities, no matter if they are small, if they have some forest to cut the district for your victory condition, they are fine. So you conquer some more land. Your reputation was ruined by the first conquest already anyway. The civics also push you into a clear order of actions. You first get the unit production bonus, then the settler production bonus, finally the worker bonus, then you get to upgrade your units for pennies.
    And this conquest is so strong that it kills half of the game. All of mid and late game is a super fast tech race where you skip trough whole eras. If you even choose to let there be a late game of course. Diplomacy is killed by the conquest.
     
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  19. Victoria

    Victoria Regina Supporter

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    It is possible to keep diplomacy and conquest together.
    The early attacks to gain ground give the ground with very little warmonger.
    I can happily war in the atomic age if I do it right, it's not that hard really.
     
  20. GIDS888

    GIDS888 King

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    Early game is much more fun - AI seems to build archers and coherently attack, altho' after the classical era it does seem to revert to "stupid".

    that said Monty launched a seaborne invasion couple games back completely out of the blue and took a city off of me, forcing me to change my game plan - so there's a massive improvement right there :cool:
     
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