Did the Devil want Jesus to live?

[sween32]

I mean, it would make sense right?

Being as manipulative as the Devil is, you'd think he'd do whatever he could to keep Jesus alive and stall the messiahs return home.

So why is Pilate tied so closely to the devil when in fact he was a bringer of the greater good?

 

[cgannon64]

Pilate, like Judas, acted immorally but nevertheless served a greater good.

Would we have had Judas or Pilate act another way? That question can't really be answered. Should we laud them for what is, even with the circumstances, the sale of a friend and the murder of an innocent? No.

 

[sween32]

Some believe that Jesus told Judas to sell him out.

 

[cgannon64]

Some beleive that Jesus didn't really have a body, either. Or that he tricked someone else into dying for him, and ran off to India. Or that the Eucharist was a hallucinogenic mushroom.

 

[sween32]

if there is a "divine plan", which I don't believe there is, then they did not act immorally. they acted just like they were supposed to. so, they were doing the work of God.

 

[Xen]

I've heard more then a few things about Jesus either not dying at all because of crucifiction (which, in all fairness, itsnt unrealistic; cricifiction was punishment that was upposet to last days after all.

 

[sween32]

that and his body was handled at night, which is against jewish rules.

 

[cgannon64]

if there is a "divine plan", which I don't believe there is, then they did not act immorally. they acted just like they were supposed to. so, they were doing the work of God.

The divine plan was, looking at it a certain way, a test to see whether humans would act immorally. Judas failed, and thus the plan was put into action.

What would have happened, had someone not sold Jesus out? Jesus wouldn't have even been necessary - human nature would already have been saved - we would still be in the garden.

 

[sween32]

so we'd be plucked up and brought back to the garden of eden if judas didn't get greedy?

 

[CoolioVonHoolio]

i think jesus was pretty much under the protection of god...

another good question is "did god want the devil to live" i mean if god is "all knowing" then why would he creat lucifer if he know that he would turn into the devil... there are so many flaws in the story of god.

 

[sween32]

because you need somebody to monitor the other side.

the flaw is that they are still enemies.

 

[cgannon64]

so we'd be plucked up and brought back to the garden of eden if judas didn't get greedy?

No. Had we never left the garden, people like Judas wouldn't do things like he did.

 

[sween32]

a little of topic here, but would you really want to live in the garden? what kind of life would that give you? God created what he and ourselves, created in his image, desired. but he didn't factor in that when you have what you desire, you desire it no more.

 

[h4ppy]

It wouldn't matter even if you wanted to be in the garden.Adam and Eve didn't do the whole mating thing till they were kicked out.

 

[Pontiuth Pilate]

It goes back to the deeper problem of whether God is responsible for evil. If you truly believe that he's omnipotent and omniscient then I can't see how He can avoid responsibility.

 

[Rambuchan]

So that this discussion doesn't slip into something which works only for Christians, can you please explain who or what the devil is again? (half sarcasm and half serious, dunno which smiley to pick to indicate that).

 

[Pontiuth Pilate]

A manifestation of pure evil with powers similar to but lesser than God's. You can call him Lucifer, Angra Mainyu, Asmodai, Shaitan, whatever.

Does Hinduism have that at all?

 

[Rambuchan]

Does Hinduism have that at all?

No. I was drawn to Hindu cosmology and morality simply because it didn't go in for such stark dichotomies as God vs. The Devil.

After many discussions, with priests, about notions of the Devil (amongst other things ). I concluded that 'he/she/it' was indeed just a symbolic manifestation to inspire fear. A fictitous construct to scare people, if you like. I didn't buy it then and I stand less chance of ever buying it as life goes on.

The Devil can be a powerful symbol perhaps for our own weaknesses and failings, and that concept is quite useful IMO. But clearly this horny, fiery chap is a nice little bit of terror spin at the end of the day.

BTW - The reading of Lucifer / Satan etc as being a Fallen Angel is much more convincing (totally wrong word there but *shrug*) and perhaps more relevant to the discussion, rather than an abstraction of evil.

 

[jonatas]

A manifestation of pure evil with powers similar to but lesser than God's. You can call him Lucifer, Angra Mainyu, Asmodai, Shaitan, whatever.

Does Hinduism have that at all?

on a side tangent, the closest parallel to Satan in Greek mythology would be Prometheus, who actually is a hero to mankind, for bringing them knowledge of fire and civilization, and is eternally punished for doing so (chained to a rock, with his liver eaten out daily)... whereas the bringing of civilization in in the OT creation account was acknowledging man's fallen state I guess... a difference I suppose

 

[Cu Chulainn]

Blaming Pilate is just plain silly. The Jewish leadership had their people all set to riot over the matter, Pilate merely chose to sacrifice one man to preserve the greater good. May not be moral under the strictest terms, but it was certainly understandable.

While the devil is one of my favorite fictional characters I find it odd that we are discussing his motivations in the latter chapters fo the Gospels seeing as he's not even present at the time. It is somewhat similar to asking what Frodo thought of the battle of Helm's Deep.