Did the Divine Mandate ever go away?

[inthesomeday]

Thinking about the moral justifications for monopoly on violence and realized a lot of them ultimately fall back on religion. The logical conclusion of most “that’s just the way it is” arguments is religious in form, at least, if not overtly so. Got me thinking: did the divine mandate ever really go away?

Obviously it still determines the votes and consent to be governed of millions of westerners— especially Americans, so unfortunately many of whom are single-issue pro life voters— but to what extent is the divine right still the fundamental basis of at least American government? The traditional narrative is that the state gradually let this justification fall to the wayside in favor of a popular mandate construct. But in many ways it seems the logic justifying the existence and extent of the state is sort of implicitly religious.

Thoughts?

 

[Manfred Belheim]

Speaking as someone who comes from a country where religion and religious thought is essentially absent from day-to-day life for most people, but where we still have a government and a state, I'd have to say I don't see the connection at all. Maybe if you've been immersed in a more religious culture all your life then this line of thinking is more likely to occur to you.

 

[Farm Boy]

Religions are sort of more straightforward with their oughts, such as when violence ought be used, and punchy ought not words like sin. There are every bit as many secular oughts operating when you remove religion from the equation, but there tends to(predictably) be a lot of similar jumbling of the oughts with is's.

 

[inthesomeday]

Speaking as someone who comes from a country where religion and religious thought is essentially absent from day-to-day life for most people, but where we still have a government and a state, I'd have to say I don't see the connection at all. Maybe if you've been immersed in a more religious culture all your life then this line of thinking is more likely to occur to you.

Where you from? Grew up in the US. Most definitely lots of religious influence on politics here.

 

[Lohrenswald]

共產黨有天命

 

[Hygro]

I too wonder this.

 

[Perfection]

If Donald Trump.was divinely mandated then God is a jerk.

 

[Manfred Belheim]

Where you from? Grew up in the US. Most definitely lots of religious influence on politics here.

Little England. I mean we literally have representatives of the Church of England in Parliament, so I suppose I can't exactly say there is no religious influence on politics whatsoever, but I don't think it factors into the reasons behind the average person's acceptance of the authority of the state, which is what you seemed to be getting at.

 

[GoodSarmatian]

It was an important part of our cultures for hundreds of years. Hard to get rid of it, and f-ing Calvinism certainly didn't help.

共產黨有天命

内部矛盾.
The Mandate of Heaven is burgeois superstition.

 

[Manfred Belheim]

Less than 50% of people in the UK state they have a religion. Few go to church, etc.

It's worth noting that a lot of those who claim to have a religion, don't really mean what you might think that means from an American point of view. I know there are surveys where significant chunks of people who identify as "Christian" also state that they don't believe in God. Even most of the ones who do, treat it as a rather distant and impersonal concept. Any talk of actually praying or "feeling God's presence" or anything like that is usually met with worried glances and smirks.

 

[Farm Boy]

Sounds delightful.

 

[Manfred Belheim]

I presume you meant that sarcastically, but I wholeheartedly agree with a non-sarcastic reading.

 

[Farm Boy]

Oh no prob, you're delightful too.

 

[Manfred Belheim]

 

[Lohrenswald]

内部矛盾.
The Mandate of Heaven is burgeois superstition.

Gongchandang has the mandate whether they like it or not

皇帝習近平萬歲

 

[Manfred Belheim]

Just an anecdote, but I fairly recently attended a funeral which had lots of mentions of god and various prayers. Everyone went along with it, and most people knew the Lord's Prayer by heart, but at the wake afterwards pretty much everyone was talking about how odd/silly/unexpected it was. And that's for a funeral, one of the few social occasions where most people would expect at least some exposure to that.

 

[aelf]

Oh, the divine mandate is alive, but it has taken on a secular character and is seldom openly declared. Occasionally, though, when rulers are confident of their power, they're more forthright.

“You want people to stand up, not scrape and bow. But if you don’t have a certain natural aristocracy in the system, people who are respected because they have earned that and we level everything down to the lowest common denominator, then I think society will lose out … If you end up with anarchy, it doesn’t mean that you’ll be delivered with brilliance.”

 

[Manfred Belheim]

Can't really argue with the last sentence though.