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Die Schlapphüte

Discussion in 'Team SANCTA' started by mostly-harmless, Dec 3, 2008.

  1. Viva_Chingon

    Viva_Chingon Condition 1

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    @Krill -- you can find info about demo screen here.

    I will see what I can see and post when I have something.
     
  2. Viva_Chingon

    Viva_Chingon Condition 1

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    GNP calculation is Total commerce + total culture + total espionage + (total research * research bonus) – expense.

    MFG Goods is the raw #of :hammers: produced each turn.

    Crop Yield is the raw # of :food: produced each turn.

    Soldiers section is a bit more complicated -- it is based on Population, Technologies, City Improvements and Units. See the post I mentioned a moment ago for the specifics on this.

    Land Area is total land squares within cultural boarders *1000.

    Population is the population of all cities...the population numbers are not direct equivalents...more info can be found in the post.

    Approval Rate = :) / :) + :(

    Life Expectancy = :health: / :health: + :yuck:

    Imports/Exports = Imports - Exports (a negative number indicates trading partners are making more money).

    -----------------------------------------------

    While trying to get something substantive out of the numbers I have found that it is quite tricky to write down all the possible scenarios...it would be a lot of this or that and would be difficult to decipher anyway.

    I think our Daimyos should do this -- it would make sense for one person to be monitoring some specific values (e.g DoW > Soldiers) and alerting us to changes and making interpretations!

    ---------------------

    The long and short of it is that I think that a few are good indicators of the overall productiveness of the civ (GDP, Mfg. Goods and Crop Yield) while others are good indicators of population, buildings, units (Soldiers, Population, Approval/Life Expectancy).

    A low Approval Rate would indicate that they have few happy resources or are reaching their resource limits; leaving them vulnerable to trade alliances, etc. The same goes for Health resources > Life Expectancy.

    The Land Area is an exact indicator of how many land tiles they have within their borders...obviously if a city was on a 1 tile island in the middle of the ocean then this would only add 1000 (1*1000) to the Land Area.
     
  3. AutomatedTeller

    AutomatedTeller Frequent poster

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    at this point, soldiers is much more a reflection on research paths than actual military units - unless someone has been just building a stack, no one has more than 5 warriors now, if that many.
     
  4. regoarrarr

    regoarrarr King

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    Do we have a list of demographics from previous turns? That can make it possible to see what the other teams have done. I know I've seen them in the recent turns but do we have them going all the way back?
     
  5. Krill

    Krill Deity

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    I don't have any autosaves, thoug hI think Memphus said that he had a majority of the saves on his PC. Would they be enough to do some analyses on?
     
  6. Viva_Chingon

    Viva_Chingon Condition 1

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    Most if not all of the demo screens we have should be in the turn reports in the Played Turns thread. Any that were taken by members other than Memphis would likely be in this thread.

    One thing I don't like about the demo screen is that it separates all the team's info and re-categorizes it by best, average and worst...this makes it so that we really only can tell how we rate against each other category and doesn't tell us much about individual civs.

    Currently,

    • Our GDP is 7 points higher than our nearest rival. 18 points of which are our research (over 50%). We are likely researching faster ATM than the other civs.
    • Our Manufacturing Goods are 4 lower than the highest rival civ and our Crop Yield is 4 higher then the nearest rival. Together (11+21=31) this likely means that we are producing our two Workers faster than anyone else can produce them (or anything else, for that matter) currently.
    • In Soldiers we are trailing the leader by 1000k points -- this is not a warrior deficiency as 1 warrior = 2000 pts. A size 4/5 city, perhaps?
    • Land area we are leading the nearest rival by 24 tiles likely due to the CRE trait.
    • As for Population we are leading the worst civ by 6k and trailing the best by 64k (rival at 91000). This is likely the single size 5 city -- an indicator that they haven't expanded yet.

    All in all, I'd say it looks like we're doing quite well for ourselves as we have a size 3 and a size 2 city (same number of worked tiles) while the size 5 civ only seems to have their capitol and we are waaay ahead of the pack as far as tile yield (combining mfg and crop numbers). The worst civ (population wise) has only a single size 3 city ATM.
     
  7. AutomatedTeller

    AutomatedTeller Frequent poster

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    I think we are doing fine, but let's not get too carried away with our big lead in GDP - 4 of those 7 points are culture and we are researching a tech where we know an optional rereq, giving us a 40% boost, so our base rate - it's quite possible that the team that has the size 5 cap is researching just as fast as us, only a tech where they only have 1 prereq.

    The difference between us and the worst civ might be that we have trade routes and are working a coastal tile vs. a river one.

    In my mind, the main thing is that we are right with the leaders.
     
  8. dutchfire

    dutchfire Deity

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    :hmm: Three teams have size 5 capitals. Are they all going for a wonder, or do they have a lot of sea resources (building workboats instead of workers)
     
  9. Viva_Chingon

    Viva_Chingon Condition 1

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    True, dutch, there are 3 size 5'ers (one look at the info screen would have told me that)...bad assumption! Thanks for catching that!

    One of them might be going for a wonder with having 18:hammers:...the average is 10 (with 18 and 4 being known) so I would think that only the 18:hammers: civ would be a candidate for attempting one.

    What wonders are available this early? Stonehenge, Great Wall, Pyramids I think are the only ones...unless they beelined Priesthood for Oracle?

    As to rival cities:
    91000*3+21000/4=73250 -- so there are 3 civs having only a single size 5 city while there is another civ out there with only a size 3.
     
  10. Krill

    Krill Deity

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    You made a mistake; a size 5 city = 90000 pop, so the team with 91000 havea second city.

    No religion has been founded yet; when a religion has been founded the quickest I think any civ will be able to get hold of PH is 2 turns after, 3 turns is most likely though as there will only be one optional prerequisite bonus, so no one is within 10 turns of building the oracle. For comparrison we are about 15 turns from founding a religion on our way to the preisthood.
     
  11. Viva_Chingon

    Viva_Chingon Condition 1

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    It wasn't so much a mistake...actually I did it all right, I just had the wrong info to work from. People on this team are so critical! (which I like, btw) :)

    But...if that's the case then each civ has a 5 and a 1 (to get 91000*3+21000/4=73250). Anyway, if you're right then that has to be the case because, otherwise, 91000+(90000*2)+21000/4=73000.

    Also, do you have a full list that has the pop sizes...I've been looking for this.
     
  12. AutomatedTeller

    AutomatedTeller Frequent poster

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    Actually, it's possible that the civ with a lot of hammers is Portugal and they are producing settlers and workers. The bonuses imperialistic and expansive civs get for settlers and workers only applies to hammers, not food bonuses, so getting 16 hammers gives 3 turn workers and 5 turn settlers (20 and 24 hammers after bonuses)
     
  13. Krill

    Krill Deity

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    Either Kaz or MS have a size 5 and size 2 city (I suspect Kaz due to higher score).
     
  14. Krill

    Krill Deity

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    From F8, we can see that we have (or atleast, had) 19.26% of the world population at the end of our turn; 5/26= 0.1923, so we know there are 26 pop points at the end of our last turn. We know that there are another 18 pop points due to hte top 5 city screen, leaving 3 pop points unacounted for. We also know from the population stat in the demographics screen that the top pop civ has 96000 pop, which is a pop 2 and pop 5 city. Leaving one other team with a pop 1 city.

    So, I'd guess that Cavs have a pop 5 and pop 2 city, and out of MS, Kaz and Saturn two of them have pop 5 cities, one of them has a pop 3 city, and one of them also has a second city out, which I would guess is Kaz due to the high score.
     
  15. 1889

    1889 Mayor of H-Marker Lake

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    I'll give it a shot and see what I can come up with. In Vanilla you can see power/food/GNP/MFG graphs for all the teams from turn one and that was a huge help. Even then the number of options multiply very rapidly and it got quite difficult to make reliable statements after a dozen turns or so. Regardless I'll look over the available screenshots and see if I can do anything with them.
     
  16. 1889

    1889 Mayor of H-Marker Lake

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    Looking over the 'Played Turns' thread I found that all the screenshots between 2960 BC and 2420 BC are gone. If anyone still hase those demographics screenshots saved I'd really love to see them. I also need team scores for those turns but hopefully thee are still screen shots in the 'exploration' or 'general turn discussion' threads.
     
  17. 1889

    1889 Mayor of H-Marker Lake

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    I need to log in so I can check some of the scalling factors, then I can get started crunching some info from the scores. Also I looked through the other threads and couldn't find any screenies from turns 15, 16, 17, 26, 27, 30, 35, 36, or 37. Any help filling in scores for those turns would be welcome.
     
  18. Krill

    Krill Deity

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    I checked, and I don't have any demo screens or saves whatsoever
     
  19. 1889

    1889 Mayor of H-Marker Lake

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    I'm still working on it, but I'm putting this here for anyone who wants see it so far. Feel free to point out errors or ask questions. The presentation is very poor too so any tips would be appreciated.

    EDIT: better just call this a rough draft until I can check it over a little better.

    Spoiler :

    Points come from population, land (that hase been under your control for 20 turns), techs, and wonders(including the palace), score is the sum of all these points. Each element adds points multiplied by different factors so some times watching the score carefully can reveal which factor has incresed allowing some infermation to be discovered.


    SATURN (Darius of Persia: Agriculture, Hunting)
    Turn 0 score 32 Pop 1(5) Land 0(0) Tech 2 ancient (11) Wonders 1(16)


    Turn 5 score 38 Pop 1(5) Land 0(0) Tech 3 ancient (17) Wonders 1(16)
    Pop growth would be 5 points so it must be a tech.

    Turn 8 score 43 Pop 2(10) Land 0(0) Tech 3 ancient (17) Wonders 1(16)


    (missing turn 15-17) Turn 18 score 49 Pop 2(10) Land 0(0) Tech 4 ancient (23) Wonders 1(16) Screenshot shows no city larger than size two. Probably not enough time to settle a new one so it must be a tech.

    Turn 20 score 55 Pop 2(10) Land 6(6) Tech 4 ancient (23) Wonders 1(16)
    20 turns from settling their capitol so land points get added.

    Turn 22 score 61 Pop 2(10) Land 6(6) Tech 5 ancient (29) Wonders 1(16)
    6 points can come from pop 3 or ancient tech 5. Lets assume it’s a tech.

    Turn 24 score 68 Pop 2(10) Land 15(15) Tech 5 ancient (29) Wonders 1(16)
    20 turns since border expansion, these are 7 more land tiles.

    (Missing Turn 26-27) Turn 28 score 74 Pop 2(10) Land 15(15) Tech 6 ancient (35) Wonders 1(16) Pop 3 and ancient tech 6 are both 6 points. Demographics show someone grow to size 3 around now and this appears the only candidate. Lets say this is the tech and next one is pop.

    Turn 29 score 80 Pop 3(16) Land 15(15) Tech 6 ancient (35) Wonders 1(16)


    Turn 33 score 86 Pop 3(16) Land 15(15) Tech 7 ancient (41) Wonders 1(16)
    Pop 4 is 5 points so this must be a tech.

    Turn 34 score 91 Pop 4(21) Land 15(15) Tech 7 ancient (41) Wonders 1(16)
    5 points can’t be a tech but it fits pop 4.

    Turn 38 score 97 Pop 5(27) Land 15(15) Tech 7 ancient (41) Wonders 1(16)
    Demographics show no size 4 cities by turn 40 so it must be growth

    Turn 41 score 103 Pop 5(27) Land 15(15) Tech 8 ancient (47) Wonders 1(16)
    Can only be a tech

    KAZAHKSTAN (Elizabeth of England: Fishing Mining)
    Turn 0 score 32 Pop 1(5) Land 0(0) Tech 2 ancient (11) Wonders 1(16)


    Turn 5 score 38 Pop 1(5) Land 0(0) Tech 3 ancient (17) Wonders 1(16)
    Pop growth would be 5 points so it must be a tech.

    (Missing Turn 15-17) Turn 18 score 43 Pop 2(10) Land 0(0) Tech 3 ancient (17) Wonders 1(16)

    Turn 20 score 50 Pop 2(10) Land 7(7) Tech 3 ancient (17) Wonders 1(16)
    20 turns after settling their capitol, these are land points.

    Turn 21 score 56 Pop 2(10) Land 7(7) Tech 4 ancient (23) Wonders 1(16)
    Could be pop 3 or ancient tech 4. Demographics show no size 3 city yet so it must be tech.

    Turn 22 score 62 Pop 3(16) Land 7(7) Tech 4 ancient (23) Wonders 1(16)
    Already got ancient tech 4 so this must be pop 3.

    Turn 24 score 69 Pop 3(16) Land 14(14) Tech 4 ancient (23) Wonders 1(16)
    7 points could only come from land tiles.

    (Missing Turn 26-27) Turn 28 score 80 Pop 4(21) Land 14(14) Tech 5 ancient (29) Wonders 1(16)
    Pop 4 is 5 points, ancient tech 5 is 6.

    Turn 31 score 86 Pop 4(21) Land 14(14) Tech 6 ancient (35) Wonders 1(16)
    Pop 5 and tech 6 are both 6 points but demographics rule out pop growth.

    Turn 35 score 92 Pop 5(27) Land 14(14) Tech 6 ancient (35) Wonders 1(16)
    Demographics show a new size 1 city and this team is the only candidate.

    Turn 38 score 103 Pop 6(32) Land 14(14) Tech 7 ancient (41) Wonders 1(16)
    Pop 6 is 5 points, tech 7 is 6 points.

    Turn 42 score 109 Pop 7(38) Land 14(14) Tech 7 ancient (41) Wonders 1(16)
    Their new city grows.

    MAD SCIENTISTS (Pacal of Maya: Mysticism, Mining)
    Turn 0 score 32 Pop 1(5) Land 0(0) Tech 2 ancient (11) Wonders 1(16)


    Turn 8 score 37 Pop 2(10) Land 0(0) Tech 2 ancient (11) Wonders 1(16)
    Tech would give 6 points so it must be pop.

    (Missing Turn 15-17) Turn 18 score 43 Pop 2(10) Land 0(0) Tech 3 ancient (17) Wonders 1(16)

    Turn 20 score 57 Pop 2(10) Land 8(8) Tech 4 ancient (23) Wonders 1(16)
    The most they could get from land would be 9, so must also be pop 3 or ancient tech 4 (both worth 6, meaning land was 8). Demographics rule out pop 3, so must be tech.

    Turn 24 score 66 Pop 2(10) Land 17(17) Tech 4 ancient (23) Wonders 1(16)
    Could be 9 points from border expansion.

    (Missing Turn 26-27) Turn 28 score 72 Pop 2(10) Land 17(17) Tech 5 ancient (29) Wonders 1(16) Demographics don’t show pop growth so it must be a tech.


    Turn 33 score 78 Pop 3(16) Land 17(17) Tech 5 ancient (29) Wonders 1(16)
    Demographics show no more size 2 cities.

    Turn 36 score 84 Pop 3(16) Land 17(17) Tech 6 ancient (35) Wonders 1(16)
    Demographics don’t show pop growth so it must be a tech.

    Turn 42 score 90 Pop 3(16) Land 17(17) Tech 7 ancient (41) Wonders 1(16)
    Demographics show someone still at size 3 so thi smust be a tech.

    CAVALLEROS (Joao of Portugal: Fishing, Mining)
    Turn 0 score 11 Pop 0(0) Land 0(0) Tech 2 ancient (11) Wonders 0(0)


    Turn 1 score 32 Pop 1(5) Land 0(0) Tech 2 ancient (11) Wonders 1(16)


    Turn 10 score 38 Pop 1(5) Land 0(0) Tech 3 ancient (17) Wonders 1(16)
    Pop growth would be 5 points so it must be a tech.

    Turn 20 score 43 Pop 2(10) Land 0(0) Tech 3 ancient (17) Wonders 1(16)
    Late population growth but since their capitol was founded late its size is easy to track.

    Turn 21 score 51 Pop 2(10) Land 8(8) Tech 3 ancient (17) Wonders 1(16)
    20 turns after settling the capitol so these are land points.

    Turn 23 score 57 Pop 3(16) Land 8(8) Tech 3 ancient (17) Wonders 1(16)
    Could be pop 3 or ancient tech 4. Demographics show someone else grew to size 3 and this is the only other candidate.

    Turn 24 score 63 Pop 3(16) Land 8(8) Tech 4 ancient (23) Wonders 1(16)
    Already have pop 3 so this must be ancient tech 4.

    Turn 25 score 70 Pop 3(16) Land 15(15) Tech 4 ancient (23) Wonders 1(16)
    Could be from border expansion.

    (Missing Turn 26-27) Turn 28 score 75 Pop 4(21) Land 15(15) Tech 4 ancient (23) Wonders 1(16)
    The next tech would be 6 so this must be pop 4

    Turn 30 score 87 Pop 5(27) Land 15(15) Tech 5 ancient (29) Wonders 1(16)
    Screen shots show their capitol at size 5. The other 6 must be a tech.

    Turn 36 score 93 Pop 5(27) Land 15(15) Tech 6 ancient (35) Wonders 1(16)
    Pop 6 is 5 points so this must be a tech

    (Missing Turn 39) Turn 40 score 104 Pop 6(32) Land 15(15) Tech 7 ancient (41) Wonders 1(16) Settling a new city and getting a tech makes 11 points.
     
  20. Krill

    Krill Deity

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    Thanks 1889.
     

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