Die Schlapphüte

[1889]

Looks very cool rego.

I calculate Cav's population was:
1 on turn 1
2 on turn 20
3 on turn 23
4 on turn 26-28
5 on turn 30
New city founded on turn 40

So I'd say one worker only right now. Without demographics for the early turns I'm not sure how to get a more accurate picture. However when we make contact and invest the requisite ep's we can see their graphs all the way back to 4,000 BC.

 

[azzaman333]

I think it's much better to keep going for the Oracle via Meditation. It won't alert Cavs to our intentions, and I'm confident we have a plan that is superior to theirs.

But we'd want to shave as many turns as possible off the planned Oracle date. Cavs have some good players, and if they built the Oracle within the time we could have shaved off, we'll feel rather silly. Early forges are worth the risk IMO.

 

[Robi D]

I think it's much better to keep going for the Oracle via Meditation. It won't alert Cavs to our intentions, and I'm confident we have a plan that is superior to theirs.

But we'd want to shave as many turns as possible off the planned Oracle date. Cavs have some good players, and if they built the Oracle within the time we could have shaved off, we'll feel rather silly. Early forges are worth the risk IMO.

Having forges is definately worth a shot at the oracle. Agree with taking the meditation route

 

[regoarrarr]

@1889 or anyone else - can it be possible that no civ has whipped anything? Looking at the turn by turn scores, the population component never goes down. I would expect that during a whip, population (and thus score) would go down. But I never see an example of that. Similarly I never see a decrease in the population component of the demographics. Specifically if we had all the civstat logs, we'd see it go down AFTER a team has logged in

I see the following possibilities

1. I know we're missing a few turns so it's possible that there was some whip / decrease during those turns.
2. It's possible that a team grew say from size 3 to size 4 and then whipped 1 pop back down to 3.
3. No team has used the whip

Any other ideas? Also, does anyone know if GNP affected by anarchy turns? I.e. if a team revolted to slavery would their GNP (or any other demographic) go to 0?

Also, I'm having trouble reconciling the Happiness demographic so it could make sense that there was some whip anger in there but not sure

 

[mostly-harmless]

Your option 2 is the most likely.

mh

 

[regoarrarr]

@M-h - I agree from a logical standpoint. But it seems odd that we haven't seen any double whips. Especially in the early game, the typical things to whip would be WBs or Monuments (single) or worker/settler (typically double if not triple whips)

 

[1889]

I was expecting to see some early rushing also. Anarchy would show up on demographics (numbers go to 1 rather than 0 though) and score would decrease to show the population reduction. I hadn't thought to track happiness to look for it though. That should work.

 

[regoarrarr]

Here is what I have for happiness. Keep in mind that people can get unhappiness from not only population and slavery, but also an unguarded city of size 3+

Also, civs might have hooked up a happy resource (gold / gems / silver / furs / ivory) at some point, which will affect both the numerator and the denominator

Turn	Approval	Rival best	Rival Avg	Rival Worst	Our Rank		Us	Best	Civ	Civ	Worst			Us	Cav	Kaz	Sat	Mad Sci				
2 (us)	83	83	62	0	2		83	83	83	83	0	62		1	0	1	1	0		83	5/(5+1)	Size 1
4 (Sat)	83	83	83	83	3		83	83	83	83	83	83		1	1	1	1	1		71	5(5+2)	Size 2
5	83	83	83	83	3		83	83	83	83	83	83		1	1	1	1	1		63	5/(5+3)	Size 3
6	83	83	83	83	3		83	83	83	83	83	83		1	1	1	1	1		55	5(5+4)	Size 4
7 (Sat)	83	83	83	83	3		83	83	83	83	83	83		1	1	1	1	1		44	4/(4+5)	
8	0	0	0	0	0															50	5/(5+5)	Size 5
17	83	83	74	71	2		83	83	71	71	71	74		1	1	2	2	2				
18	83	83	74	71	2		83	83	71	71	71	74		1	1	2	2	2				
19	71	83	74	71	3		71	83	71	71	71	74		2	1	2	2	2		64	9/(9+5)	Size 3, 1
20	71	71	71	71	3		71	71	71	71	71	71		2	2	2	2	2		60	9/(9+6)	Size 3, 2
21	71	71	71	71	3		71	71	71	71	71	71		2	2	2	2	2		64	9/(9+5)	Size 4, 1
23	71	71	63	55	2		71	71	63	63	55	63		2	3	3	2	2		60	9/(9+6)	Size 5, 1
24	71	71	63	55	2		71	71	63	63	55	63		2	3	3	2	2		56	9/(9+7)	Size 5, 2
25	71	71	64	44	2		71	71	71	71	44	64		2	3	3	2	2				
26	71	71	60	50	2		71	71	63	55	50	60		2	4	4	2	2
27																		
28	71	71	61	50	2		71	71	71	50	50	61		2	4	4	2	2
29	71	71	57	50	2		71	71			50	61		2	4	4	3	2
30	71	71	56	50	2		71	71	63	55	50	60		2	5	4	3	2
31																		
32	62	71	56	50	2		62	71			50	61		3	5	4	3	2
33	64	62	54	50	1		64	62			50	56		3,1	5	4	3	3
34	64	62	54	50	1		64	62			50	56		3,1	5	4	4	3
jan. 5	64	64	54	50	1		64	64			50	57		3,1	5	4,1	4	3
35	64	64	54	50	1		64	64			50	57		3,1	5	4,1	4	3
36	64	60	53	50	1		64	60			50	55		3,1	5	4,1	4	3
37	64	64	54	50	1		64	64			50	57		3,1	5	4,1	4	3
38	64	60	53	50	1		64	60		50	50	53		3,1	5	5,1	5	3
39	60	60	53	50	1		60	60		50	50	53		3,2	5	5,1	5	3
40	60	60	56	50	2		60	60			50	55		3,2	5,1	5,1	5	3
41	60	60	56	50	2		60	60			50	55		3,2	5,1	5,1	5	3
42	60	60	55	50	2		60	60			50	55		3,2	5,1	5,2	5	3
43	60	60	55	50	2		60	60			50	55		3,2	5,1	5,2	5	3
44	60	60	55	50	2		60	60			50	55		3,2	5,1	5,2	5	3
45	60	60	55	50	2		60	60			50	55		3,2	5,1	5,2	5	3
46	60	60	55	50	2		60	60			50	55		3,2	5,1	5,2	5	3

 

[1889]

I only went about half way through but I don't see any evidence of rushing. Every reduction in happiness is matched by a corresponding increase in population. Juggling undefended cities and hooking up happiness can make all the numbers I checked work out.

 

[regoarrarr]

What about between turns 24 and 25. Pops stayed the same (2-3-3-2-2) but the worst hapiness went from 55 (5/9) to 44 (4/9)

 

[Krill]

undefended city?

 

[regoarrarr]

I don't think so. 44 (4/9) means that it has 4 happies and 5 unhappies.

Come to think of it, how could you possibly only have 4 happy faces? Both slavery and an undefended city would only add to the unhappys - shouldn't affect the happies

 

[regoarrarr]

And the answer is.... I mis-typed. It should be 55 not 44

 

[1889]

I think it was possible that Mad rushed around turn 27 and grew back the next turn or something. But it can also fit with a capitol that is undefended for just a few turns. The problem I had deciding between the two choices is that one gives an average happiness of 60.5 and the other 61.4 and I'm not really sure how rounding works so I quit.

If it was a rush the happiness increase we should see on about 37 is again obscured by pop growth.

 

[regoarrarr]

I think I have figured out that rounding is always down. Which, when you think about it, is consistent with every other kind of calculation in civ 4. So 61.4 is 61, and 60.5 is 60.

 

[regoarrarr]

Okay - updates for (our) T47:

As was earlier reported, Cavalieros founded Meditation. They received 6 points for researching a tech. Someone reported upthread that from F7, it listed 22% of the world as adherents of Buddhism? Can I get a confirmation from that - because that does not seem to be possible. I'm not entirely sure how that number is calculated (I thought it was pop points that have that religion divided by total pop points), but nothing I do makes it 22%. Not to mention that it shouldn't have been founded in the capital anyways due to the way the holy city algorithm works since they have a 2nd city.

Mad Scientists received 5 score points and 1000 soldier points for growing their capital to size 4.

SANCTA received 9000 land points, 1000 pop points, and 5 score points for founding a 3rd city. We also got 6 points for discovering a tech (mysticism). This ties us with Saturn for most techs, with 9.

 

[Krill]

What if they founded religion in the second city and it spread immediately to their capital (or another city if that is possible)?

 

[regoarrarr]

Hmm I think that would do it actually. One problem is that I was using 28 as the denominator (total world population). That is the correct current total population, but when the 22% number was reported, it was only 27 because we had not founded our city (or possibly Mad Sci had not logged in and gone up to pop 4.

6/27 = 22.22%

A good check for anyone that can log in with the save is to see if F7 now reports 21.4% (6/28)

What good (bad for us) luck to have it spread so fast!

 

[regoarrarr]

Ah and actually - I missed an increase of 4000 land points. Which means that it was not Mad Sci's capital growing to size 4, their capital is still at size 3 but they just founded a 2nd city. I guess that explains (partially) why their cap was at size 3 for 14! turns

 

[Memphus]

yes. that is. they founded it in city #2. it also spread that same turn to their capital.

this has happened to me many of times in single player. (always gets my goat sicne i have to redirect my missionary (conf))