Discussion in 'Civ4 - Caveman 2 Cosmos' started by Hydromancerx, Feb 20, 2012.
We did not have a thread for this yet so I made one.
A big, big part of dieselpunk is the whole weird war aspect where the axis and the allies make superweapons to throw at each other. Unfortunately a lot of these superweapons had more than a bit of the occult in them (return to castle wolfenstein) and probably shouldn't be part of this mod, unless we're being more lenient about that sort of thing. Furthermore mad science and giant streamlined zeppelin motherships sounds like a late steampunk thing while big boxy monster robots a la The Mechanical Monsters Superman short infringe on early retro-future. That said it's important to get something (Anything!) out there and we can worry about where it really belongs later.
If at all possible it'd be super keen to stuff noir, adventure archaeology (tomb raiding) and Science Hero stuff into this era and special buildings could include a private detective's office or a dieselpunk themed think tank.
Heroes would include Doc Savage, The Shadow, and Dr. Henry "Indiana" Jones Jr.
I couldn't begin to suggest realistic stats for any of this until I've played the game a few times. It's been a while.
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/StupidJetpackHitler <--I like this one
I have a few units in mind already that I will post once I get some buildings in place for them. I would like to add some ideas from "Sky Captain and the World of Tomorrow" as well.
Zeppelins need not be steampunk. Real world ones were driven by combustion motors. I would love to see some Crimson Skies like stuff for that one. Like zeppelins acting as fighter carriers.
Would aslo make for an interesting change in gameplay to have those.. imagine having a mobile air base over your enemies lands, that allows your dive bombers to harass his army, but might be shot down at any time.
That's pretty much what I was thinking when I typed out giant streamlined zeppelin motherships. In the thirties America was experimenting with that by putting a biplane hanger inside one of their Navy airships but obviously the tech didn't take off (pun intended). An airship that carries 1-3 early fighters would be a fantastic idea for a dieselpunk thing-a-ma-bob.
I'm thinking to distinguish steampunk airships from diselpunk airships there should be a dichotomy in the overall look of the thing. For example, early steampunk airships should be all rigging and wood and detached gondola like they can't decide if it should be a ship or a hot air baloon http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Hyperion_Takeoff1.jpg while late steampunk airships should be bronze or copper in color and have lots of tubing and vents to break up the design. Maybe even throw a few propellers up top like the air pirate mothership from TaleSpin. In contrast Dieselpunk airships have got to borrow heavily from Art Deco and Streamline Moderne design philosophy of straight sweeping lines, tons of chrome and big Big BIG. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Nash_Ambassador_Slipstream_4-door_sedan.jpg
Requires: Zeppelins/hydrogen, oil products
Stats:Helicopter/35 strength, 2 movement/Doesnt receive defensive bonuses, ignores terrain movement cost, CAN enter ocean, cannot capture cities/50% vs wheeled, 50% vs tracked, 50% vs gunpowder/Cargo Space 2(Carries Fighters)
Civilopedia: Nearly twice as large as the majestic Hindenburg class airships, the stupendous Goliath Class airship, wonder of the skies, provides unparalleled luxury for its obscenely wealthy passengers (If you're not obscenely wealthy then how can you afford a ticket). But in times of war this exceedingly versatile craft can be configured to provide air superiority where you need it, when you need it while still providing its crew of over 300 able airmen with the luxury of heated and well lit living quarters thanks to the wonders of electricity.
Notes: I probably made this too powerful. Also it helps if you read the civilopedia entries as if you were an old time radio announcer.
Now to counter this swarm of lethal giant airships and their buzzing biplane cargo we're going to need some heavy artillery. Specifically we'll need a lighting gun courtesy of Tesla. I think it should look a bit like the mad scientist's giant laser from that old superman short http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OYMynm63A-k (at about 5:30) minus the big bulky base. Unfortunately I don't really know right now how it might be distinguished from the anti air halftrack except that it would probably be much better at intercepting aircraft and have a bonus vs helicopters to counter the goliath. But since only one person would be able to make all this dieselpunk stuff thanks to it probably being a world wonder (1 build only) like steampunk that would be kinda pointless. Couldn't these punk wonders have like three uses or something?
Finally (at least for units) I think the boneshaker drill I put in the steampunk alt history thread might be better off here in dieselpunk as a superweapon.
Requries: Flight/dieselpunk/city size >6
Effects: 2 unhealth, 5 gold, airlift 2 units per turn, +6, +1 trade route, Required to build Aerospacial national agency and fire hanger.
Civilopedia: This wide open field, sometimes paved, sometimes not, sometimes underwater, usually surrounded by hangers, workshops and the like, serves as an arrival and departure point for all manner of aircraft. The emerging airliner industry appreciates a place to park their airships and seaplanes to take on more paying customers.
Notes: Replaces Airport, upgrades to Grand Aerodrome
Requires Aerodynamics/dieselpunk, oil products/ city size>13/ power
Effects: 5 unhealth, 20 gold, airlift 4 land units per turn, +3 trade routes, required to build vacation resort,
Civilopedia: A metropolis on the move needs an aerodrome that can handle the needs of those swarms of dames and gents that want to be halfway 'round the world by yesterday and want to do it in style. With its sweeping marble columns, attractive statuary, dozens of duty free luxury shops and connections to all the city's forms of mass transit, the average Grand Aerodrome attracts far more and richer clientele.
Notes: Replaces commercial airport, think grand central station for airships, Builds 50% faster with marble maybe?
Has anyone played the two Bioshocks a ton? I never have but I know it's dieselpunk as all getout. Was there anything there that could be used?
Underwater cities, cybernetics (Big Daddies and Big Sisters) and high-speed bathyspheres come to mind. There's also superhuman powers granted by genetic modification via a fictitious substance, but that might be too "fantastic" for C2C, and would fit better in Biopunk anyway.
I played Bioshock one. Maybe the Big Daddies in there could be used as some kind of power armoured infantry.
Another inspiration could be the first "Ghost in the Shell" movie. It´s not Dieslpunk, but the grapics design goes in that direction.
Edit: The airship in the article you linked reminds me of "Last Exile". Might be an anime worth looking at for further inspiration.
An addition to the Goliath: make the boni against evrything that is not meant to kill it ( like maybe a special kind of ground based AA gun as you said, or fighters/bombers) extremly high. Or simpler Make it´s strength insane and give it mali against those. But make it also defend only. It´s not a "gunship" Zeppelin. As a mothership it would realisticly stay out of the way at an altitude that is hard to reach for most ground based AA.
And Germany was experimenting with things liekthat as well, using external docking clamps. It did work, but allowed only about 2 fighters on a normal sized Zeppelin. And with the money going more into the development of jet propulsion it was dropped. ( That might have been delicate: jets landing on a hydrogen filled Zeppelin)
Building ( maybe National Wonder)
Zuse Z4 ( or maybe another number)
Effets: +30% Research, -some gold, maybe required to build some more complicated weapon.
Civilopedia: This marvel of mechanical computing allows your scientists to concentrate on their work, doing the math for them. Comes fully programmable by punch cards
The real world Z4 was one of the biggest non electronic computing systems, and around 1950 the only working one in Europe ( all others lost to WW II)
Off topic: A quite interesting "laser" that is.. just before it hits the bridge you see it already bathing the bridge in light. So the "glow" of the laser reaches the target before the laser..probably traeling at something like 1.5c
When I always think of Deisel punk, I always see the hulking machines with huge F-ing smoke stacks pouring out black smoke as they chug along. I'd like to see a walker type mech, dirty from black smoke and pumping out that black death as it crushes mine enemies!!
I don´t think Warhammer 40k is Dieselpunk..but their Dreadnoughts would fit in just fine nevertheless I think. And so would their tanks.
Obviously warhammer 40k isn't diesel punk...its set in thw 41st centuary with warp travel.......
But since the dreadnaught fits my explination well of the hulking sci-fi machiens with smoke stacks, i used it. You have a point with thier tanks, they usually are bulky and are smoking like a coal plant.
Here are some of the units that have graphics that I still need to write up stats for ...
- Big Bertha
- Tsar Tank
- PKZ-2 (Possibly Moved to Steampunk)
- Railroad Artillery
- Double Biplane
- Fa-223 Drache
Would it be possible to convert models from Fallout 3 and New vegas into units?
I don't really know any thing about converting units from other games but they're both gamebryo games so I think it could be done (feel free to tell me if I'm completely wrong).
If it could be done then the power armor from fallout would make perfect Diesel-punk special infantry units.
Links to some pics:
Fallout 3 (Fallout any of them actually) is sooooo atompunk dood. Dieselpunk infantry is not going to look a whole lot more differenter-er than ww2 outfits with more leather and gas masks.
What would be a good cutoff point between dieselpunk and atompunk. I think it should be around the timeline that Jet engines would ubiquitous, after all, before the Space Age it was the Jet Age. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jet_Age
As a social expression of the 1950s and the start of Atompunk/Retrofuture this would probably be it. Gone were the giant zeppelins and courageous bush pilots. Sputnik and the obsession with the rocket were just around the corner (kids stopped buying cowboy toys and switched to space capsules). Jet airliners cut point to point travel times into a third of what it would be and greatly extended the range you could fly before transferring and made the big mysterious and still mostly unexplored world (a large part of the dieselpunk vibe) seem a whole lot smaller. Walt Disney even made a boat ride about this new small world type feeling.
I put automats in Retrofuture because I was thinking about how stories of the 30s to 50s assumed they'd be everywhere in the future along with the food pill and robot nanny. Thing is, Pushbutton Automats were an actual thing that was pretty much all over the place in the big cities of the 20s-50s until early fast food restaurant chains with drive thrus (McDonalds) murdered them. Maybe automats would be better off in dieselpunk, what do you think?
Speaking of Retro Space/Retro Future. I know it's called Atompunk now but may I "bunp"(sic) that old thread anyway and we can treat it like it's called Atompunk?
Now one more idea for a dieselpunk building I was thinking of a Pneumatic Tube Mail system. I say I WAS thinking about a Pneumatic Tube mail system but a quick check on wikipedia says that most of the things were built in the 1850-1900 amd would more squarely fall within the purview of Steampunk despite the fact that I don't quite think the feel matches the steam, brass and mad science thing I have in mind when pondering Steampunk. Besides I have no clue what it'd do anyway.
I would have to agree that the Fallout series would fall under "Atompunk" rather than "Dieselpunk". That's not to say we still cannot use ideas from Fallout, just not under Dieselpunk.
Steampunk = 1837-1910 AD
Dieselpunk = 1910-1945 AD
Atompunk = 1945-1965 AD
Biopunk = 1990-20?? AD
Note that its approximately the range. Its more of the style of technology than a specific date. I also think biopunk could possibly be earlier in the 80's or even 70's.
I've thought about what would make a good superweapon and I think I've come up with a good one if you'll pardon my little anecdote: In one particular game of an old version of the Rise from Erebus mod I was playing the steampunk civ Mechanos. One of their unique units was the Dirigible Fleet which was slow and weak but could hold six units and fly. It was obviously intended to transport armies from continent to continent but instead I loaded it up with six cannons that were twice as powerful as it and range bombarded enemy stacks to death from the safety of a mountain before mopping up with blimps. Gives a whole new meaning to flying fortress and brings to mind that floating City/Weapons platform you explore in Bioshock Infinite.
A quick test in C2C however showed that it doesn't quite work. The problem is that nothing in cargo can range bombard from a ship. I thought of a solution, but it's a pretty ugly kludge. That Goliath Mothership can carry two fighters. When I made it I was thinking Biplanes, but what if there was a "fighter" with a range of one that coincidentally looked like a gun, was named like a gun, had no attacking animation, could take no promotions and could only airstrike, airbomb or rebase. *sigh* Like I said, pretty ugly. I just wanted at least one unusual, fun to play with thing in every -punk.
So now that the Dieselpunk buildings and units have gone in what do people think? Any other ideas for buildings or units?
If we're talking about WW era secret weapons projects then perhaps we should include a feeble attempt at a flying saucer. The Nazis were developing it and we took over in the attempt after the war. We were able to get it working but it wasn't as much chop as we hoped and eventually turned it completely over to our Canadian research partners to further develop. Hard to say what's happened with it since then but it supposedly began as a Nazi back-engineering attempt originally. This might fit with the theme.
What were the things added? All the info I could find was that they were.
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