[DIETY] Boudica in: Bad karma strikes back! (All warmonger pangaea)

[sossos]

My experience on the standard pangea with high sea level and 6 AIs:

1. Every one is very close. If you can block the way, you can easily build as many cities as AIs.
2. The resouce is relatively fewer for each AI because the land area is smaller. There is high chance that you can cut off the strategic resource easily.

Therefore, it is always preferrable if you can build the first or the first two cities on the way of AI expansion. Research archery early and control the strategic resource.

3. Protective is a very useful trait in this kind of map.

For this map, please just go, go, go and settle the first city beside Aztec, I think it will make things much easier.

 

[Habitus]

400ish AD

Spoiler :

Went Agriculture - Mining (so worker had stuff to do) - AH. Monty settled towards me and turn after settling founded Bud. Not a good start, when no horse was found with AH i took a gamble and decided to go for a Engineering Bulb break out as i should have copper or iron near by for the UU and/or Xbows.
Find out after trading for IW that the holy city culture has the iron, about 15 turns later I finally can trade for it and only afew more turns until i get my 2nd GS to bulb Engineering thou it costs me 50gpt to get the iron, luckly i had built up a fair bank of gold as i knew it would be expensive once i could trade for it as i had few resources he wanted.
2 Turns before i go bankrupt, with around 5 Xbows and 5 Trebs, Monty at war with JC I decide to declare so i don't lose my army before it gets to the holy city (my first target, with iron city as 2nd since Holy City will be my frontline after taking those two. It was a bad choice (cause i was stupid), I should of waited 2 more turns for 3 more Xbow and 2 more Trebs cause of course declaring breaks my trade with him, the 3 xbows i just whipped (on top of 5 i got) disappear as i don't have Iron, and I fail to take the Holy city after losing at low odds several times
So try 1 is a failure

 

[Manco Capac]

Okie-dokie-lookie!

Spoiler :

Ok, I attempted again with different approaches.

First, I've thought to abuse map knowledge and settle my second city right on the future spot of iron. But that required settler first (so slugging my economy badly) and building warriors for that city so as to reduce the ~10% revolt per turn by half. But I realized that was a stupid idea. Settle on iron is good to completely fight culture, but I had no chances to keep that city from the fine aztec culture.

So I went again to the flip iron spot plan but monument should be built earlier...so its culture doubles fast! Indeed, what caracterizes ancient times is its fast step through dates. According to the rules, after 1000 years of existence, a culture building doubles its base culture. Monuments work (unless SH provided it).
Meanwhile I built SH til last turn near completion, continued in my second city and got ~150 fal gold. Perfect for a direct shoot to IW.

Quite unfortunate, buddism never attained that iron city (come one, at 4.5 tiles...or ~4 tiles, we have the highest rate of spread, that is 10% per turn (20% with shrine IIRC). Got unlucky and Monty was refined enough to spread buddism everywhere with his missionaries except that city. LOL. Attained 55%...56%...55%. Again, it was too late.

Therefore, early rush is impossible. Sad face.

Out of rage, I went for super cheese f-ck off Monty warrior rush...
Got 16% win and kept 3 warriors...
Despite the inconvenient luck, the odds resembled as an axe rush.
Should I continue the game as a AW game...?
Was it efficient? Definitely, because I got the settler converted into a worker and that worker make up the non worker first...more or less. While I started a settler and will block with my scout all possible high founding valued locations.

Spoiler :

Yes, I know I should play along conventions, but isn't S&T subforum promotes originality...or at the least different approaches.

 

[Snaaty]

interesting map.

havent played regular civ since quite a while, but gave it a shot. played in a big session up to 1 ad (or at least tried), but civ crashed on me twice during the last 15nish turns so stopped a bit bc. must be buffy togehter with the ffh2 mod

Spoiler :

did wander around a bit with my starting settler and settled the plains hill near the fish at the lower end of our peninsula at turn3 i think, with no better spot near (maybe even turn4). it has plain terrible production btw. no wonder nobody else settled there.
knowing what i know now, this was a very stupid move, because settling 6 from the startin spot would have been much, much better and giving a very strong capital. now, 4000 turns into the game im about to move capital back to starting spot btw (building palace there)



then, after moving the scout a bit, i thought, wtf? phants near, so this map cant be very hard. did send my first settler there to grab them but monty claimed them via culture very early, so the next setback came sort of quick.

thought a bit about GLH but discarded that thanks to said uber-productive capital and the fact i would be able to start it around 1600 bc. so i whipped a galley instead and went for the islands. was the right move, because GLH went around the date i would have been able to start it...

...

on the good side, monty and rome went to war early and shaka decided to follow a different religion then monty and all the other cool guys. monty even closed borders on shaka, so i could safely switch to montys religion and hide behind my feathery friend with my mighty army of 3 warriors, 2 workers and a great scientist

all in all, things are looking fine. screens and save are from before the last crash, so i know that i will be able to trade col around for cash, alpha and mona and therefore bulb phil this turn (reducing my army by 20% by doing so...)

core land:
View attachment 325860

islands settled (last island will be able to whip a monument in 7 turns so in 18 turns it will be able to work its fish and be somewhat usefull):
View attachment 325861

moving palace back to where it should have been from the start:
View attachment 325862
wont be the best capital ever, but with 9 cottages it will do. idea is to get academy+oxford up there quick and to settle all other GS there to do a "super-capital-light" approach, getting somehow to rifles or cannons in time.
nice side effect of not building cottages nor having strat ressources to improve (nor land in general) is that i didnt really need workers, cant remember another game where i had 2 around 1 ad ...

settling capital here right form the start, i guess even GLH might have been viable. researching directly ah-mining-fishing, settler at pop 2 (rivermine + cow) settling the lower plainshill asap and whipping settlers there pop 4-2 using fish and pigs might even result in the same expansion speed. getting the islands AND GLH should put you in a winning position (if you dont get declared that is)

tech screen:
View attachment 325863

raggie is a beast, having already paper research pre 1AD, so lib very likely is no option. rest is looking good.

no idea if i will finish this game, crashes are annoying

 

[Zx Zero Zx]

@Shaka I would have to look at the auto saves as I rage quit after realizing how badly the AI had snowballed out of control at around 1200 AD. Do you want that one or one where I was actually near tied with the AI.

 

[shakabrade]

@ZxZeroZx

I don't have problems with any save file, so you can attach them both

@Snaaty

Spoiler :

I am very glad player of such caliber was lured to this game. I love your games.
It was my intention, afterall .

I am puzzled by what made you settle there? Don't see any logic behind that move. If you wanted to see if there was more fish in the ocean, you could still settled 1N from there on the same turn.

Always thought you were Archery first guy, along Duckweed, so I want to know how did you know you were safe? When I was testing this game before posting it here, Ragnar killed me when I had only 4 warriors, since I wanted to see if my 7 Archers and walls in original game were a mistake. He sent 3 axes, an archer and some spearman.

You went for islands. That was my initial plan, but Shaka claimed that island very early and I didn't know if there were more islands there and researching Sailing just in case didn't seem smart. Will you be able to whip universities on islands in time? It seems a bit tricky to me. Definitely no courthouses before.

Your bpt is very good, best actually. I am looking forward to watching this game unfold. Cannons will win this game, but you'll have to survive until then. Your feathery friend doesn't like you much...


I hope you'll fix those crashing issues. Reinstall BUFFY? It only takes double clicking it. Or remove FFH? I don't have that mod, but I guess it'd have to be simple and fast to remove/install it again and you don't lose saves.

 

[shakabrade]

@Tachy
Lol, ya crazy bia*ch.

Spoiler :

Yes, I know I should play along conventions, but isn't S&T subforum promotes originality...or at the least different approaches.

This type of cheesmongering is more of HoF domain, but I like it. Never considered such a thing. I guess you first abused game mechanics with scout blocking you talked about earlier to get time for 4 warriors. Maybe it turns out well and someone declares on him and ends his misery. Downsides would be obvious: war with him, and need for some heavier military production, but also Shaka and JC will get much stronger and JC will have iron 100% and since they'll have some space to expand to, will not go to war with each other that early (my experience and not mechanics knowledge) Then when they get enough attacking units, they'll choose someone close and weak, and that'll probably be you. Getting peace early from Monty, would be crucial.

My two cents. It is still very hard game, despite phants.

It's wonderful how I always learn something from you and you don't really learn from me .

 

[shakabrade]

400ish AD

Spoiler :

I decide to declare so i don't lose my army before it gets to the holy city (my first target, with iron city as 2nd since Holy City will be my frontline after taking those two. It was a bad choice (cause i was stupid), I should of waited 2 more turns for 3 more Xbow and 2 more Trebs cause of course declaring breaks my trade with him, the 3 xbows i just whipped (on top of 5 i got) disappear as i don't have Iron, and I fail to take the Holy city after losing at low odds several times
So try 1 is a failure

And that situation where you forgot you'll lose xbows without iron is perfect candidate for load game. Don't need to restart, the whole point is too see which strategy is the best. Not your execution. If you have taken it more time, you'd remembered that. No point in starting over, since, I repeat, you still don't see was that strategy good or bad. This isn't XOTM.

Thumbs up!

 

[Zx Zero Zx]

Well these are the only saves I have as I don't remember how to make it so Civ auto saves every turn. Hopefully they will show how insanely the AI exploded in tech over like 10 turns.

 

[shakabrade]

@Zx

Spoiler :

You missed on wonderful opportunity game gave you. You could have had taken JC out. Maybe even hurt Zulu He was stuck with praets and Longbows long enough for you to take him out with trebs+muskets. I had a plan of conquering Rome in my game, but Viking vassalized him before I had any means of doing that, and Zulus were vassalized by Monty. JC in your game is still vulnerable, but it is a bit too late. Grens and rifles are near. Alex trades strategic resources at pleased so you might consider that. He has Iron, afterall. I think all your problems on this map came from lack of exploration. That is why you didn't react. Did you notice Rome had both GLH and Colossus. Wouldn't that help? A lot.

Your game is very similar to mine, but I went for cuirs for as I already said in my 50BC save, I knew I'd run out of steam and not reach Cannons in decent time. You'll also see what real tech trading and brokering looks like when you see my 800AD save. Mwahahaha.

 

[PeteJ]

Ok here is a serious attempt. Played it up to 75bc.

Spoiler :

I decided to go with a bulbing strategy to get early engineering. Since fishing wouldn't be in for a while I settled the plains hill 1E of the rice. Research order was AH>mining>wheel>writing>aesthetics>math>MC. I traded for alpha and bulbed both machinery and most of engineering. I was somehow able to nab stonehenge in the capital which helped me get my scientists out quicker.

A couple of pictures:

Spoiler :

Spoiler :

The price of iron is pretty steep. I'm probably gonna wait until I have some trebs out before making the trade.

Spoiler :

 

[Mylene]

Well okay i tried one, and am afraid it's not my thing

Spoiler :

..cos of us having no res. unless we get lucky, or maybe with knowing what land lies east. But even then, if Monty sets his holy city so he grabs Ivory + Iron..
Teching further for later wars would be luck based too, with 3-4 cities and nothing special to work with, everything depends on how AI balance turns out. I dun like playing solely on luck

 

[sossos]

@mylene

What if you can have 7 cities? Will you play on? As I said before, for this kind of crowded map(high sea level), the most important thing is to block the way.

Spoiler :

 

[Mylene]

..and now tell me that's not cheesy
I did these kind of thingies with Gwaja back then, but i would not play a map till end like that lol

 

[Zx Zero Zx]

@Zx

Spoiler :

You missed on wonderful opportunity game gave you. You could have had taken JC out. Maybe even hurt Zulu He was stuck with praets and Longbows long enough for you to take him out with trebs+muskets. I had a plan of conquering Rome in my game, but Viking vassalized him before I had any means of doing that, and Zulus were vassalized by Monty. JC in your game is still vulnerable, but it is a bit too late. Grens and rifles are near. Alex trades strategic resources at pleased so you might consider that. He has Iron, afterall. I think all your problems on this map came from lack of exploration. That is why you didn't react. Did you notice Rome had both GLH and Colossus. Wouldn't that help? A lot.

Your game is very similar to mine, but I went for cuirs for as I already said in my 50BC save, I knew I'd run out of steam and not reach Cannons in decent time. You'll also see what real tech trading and brokering looks like when you see my 800AD save. Mwahahaha.

I gave up on the map after watching the AI go from being behind me in tech to having Sci Meth over the course of 10 turns. But yea I didn't explore enough, and as I said I am going to try, and replay this. I think I can easily pull off a Treb rush if I play it correctly. It is still a hard map none the less.

 

[GKey]

Well, this map seem to be not winnable without previous knowledge. I wish Snaaty will keep playing it and keep us updated.
This is just your type!

 

[shakabrade]

Well okay i tried one, and am afraid it's not my thing

Spoiler :

Spoiler :

..cos of us having no res. unless we get lucky, or maybe with knowing what land lies east. But even then, if Monty sets his holy city so he grabs Ivory + Iron..
Teching further for later wars would be luck based too, with 3-4 cities and nothing special to work with, everything depends on how AI balance turns out. I dun like playing solely on luck

Spoiler :

Wouldn't agree. You can still nab Shaka or JC with trebs+muskets if you bulb/trade well, or you can settle one of two iron spots in tundra if you explore well (like I did, since AI settles tundra and ice late). There is a lot of luck involved, but that's normal. HoF start--You don't need luck to win, Hard start--You need some luck to win.

I didn't have luck with my potential targets being vassalized early by Monty and Ragnar who I was friendly with, so I had to wait and utilize my friendship into this:

Spoiler :

This is also where I stopped. I still might not win, but I surely didn't lose yet, and I'll have my share of war and fun with reasonablly strong units. I don't think I had much if any luck, because I didn't base any of my decisions on it.

 

[sossos]

7 cities + Gaja(if you mean elephant) + stone + a lot of river tiles+ enough food. The map might turn to be much easier.

If the starting spot is at the corner, I would always sacrifice several turns to brace up the fences.

 

[Mylene]

Nopes, Gwaja was a player here.
She made fun (and normally unbeatable) maps for me, where i moved my Capital like that
If you did this move on your first time you saw this map, that's good.

 

[shakabrade]

Well, this map seem to be not winnable without previous knowledge. I wish Snaaty will keep playing it and keep us updated.
This is just your type!

Well, believe it or not, the host himself is actually at his first attempt and is doing relatively well.

Simple reason: I played this hard map only for myself and when I realized I did pretty well, I wanted to show off and posted a thread.
Like you wouldn't have done the same.