Discussion in 'Civ5 - Strategy & Tips' started by Blicero, Nov 17, 2013.
270 turn victory is an excellent win time.
pkf -- where did City #4 come from? For what it's worth I'm having a helluva time kicking out 4 settlers and still getting an early NC. Hurts not getting settlers until your 4th SP. That seems to me like it's in the turn 50-60 range, then you have to move your settlers to a spot and then probably two of them have to hard-build the library, which takes 15'ish turns. Is there a youtube video out there post-patch that shows how this gets done?
not sure if i understand correctly.. but with culture ruin collective rule hits quite early (only a few turns slower than with liberty only).. basically have to focus on buying at least one lib. other two cities focus production lib as in dont grow off two food tiles because it will be growing quickly with upcoming caravans anyways. oh and of course - chop forests =)
also means usually delaying lib in cap a bit (after caravans).
I'd love to see such a video too.
I needed a break from the Highlands HOF... that map fills me with rage... so I decided to try this.
So far, t6, culture ruin and I found Kilimanjaro! Now I can see why the OP chose this map. Mt K + Inca = OP. I would normally go Tradition with the Inca, and go peaceful SV, but finding Kilimanjaro, and being the Inca, all I can think is "extra movement in hills for artillery!!". That means setting up and attacking in the same turn. It means getting across the map faster. It means Logistics XBows can move into range and attack twice in the same turn. In other words, it means "super-fast domination win".
So... I really have no choice but to go Liberty. My first expo will be right next to Kilimanjaro so I can immediately collect bonus culture. That should get Liberty completed by t70, in time to score a juicy Wonder, early NC, or plant an early academy if my libraries aren't ready. Hm... decisions decisions. Maybe I'll beeline currency and try to score Petra in the capital for 5 food 3 hammer terrace farms and bonus trade route beakers.
If Petra isn't there, no worries, I'll try for Macchu Picchu. I'm beelining Machinery regardless and Guilds is on the way. Since this is a regular Diety map, and not Highlands insanity, I can probably get one of my opponents to DoW me by aggressively forward-settling. So, I may try to build two settlers as soon as I get the free one. It's a risky strategy, but I can probably chop two settlers out + pyramids before t50 if I steal enough workers. If I can make someone DoW me I can just sit in my safe hills farming XP. I just have to pray no one goes for t40 pyramids...
So, I think my build order will be: scout,scout,monument,shrine,archer,archer,start pyramids,settler,settler,finish pyramids,archer,archer... there's enough forest near my first two city spots to chop all that out in time for Construction. And I should have enough money saved up by then to rush-buy one more archer and still do 5 upgrades.
I think my second expo will be on the goldmines just east of Kilimanjaro. Looks like a decent terrace farm spot. Gotta explore more before I decide. No idea who my neighbors are yet, but it doesn't really matter. They're giving me workers!
Well, things didn't go quite as I planned. Boudicca beat me to Desert Folklore, so I took One With Nature. I goofed and put Machu SE of Mt K instead of NW. That's going to delay that salt and make it much more of a pain to defend. (3 jungle tiles Monte can attack from instead of 2 plains tiles with Mt K in the way. I'll chop it out as fast as I can but I've got other priorities for my workers!)
Otherwise, it's going well. 4 cities out by t50, free worker t52, Pyramids t53, Construction t54. I don't think I've ever timed it this well before!
I'm friends with a few CS from barb camp quests, (about to be friends with more) and I have tons of cash for CB upgrades. I've stolen 2 workers from Hanoi, 1 from Monte, and rescued 2 from barbarians. I have 3 more coming, just in time to start building all those terrace farms and free roads. My capital may only be size 5, but it'll have +14 food in a few turns.
My fifth city will be near the copper out east. I'll probably not plant a 6th unless I'm rolling in happiness.
So far every single city qualifies for an observatory... I'm really torn on whether I should waste my time with Astronomy though. Between the extra beakers to get there, and the hammers spent on observatories, I think at most it'll shave a few turns on artillery, and after universities I need to be building trebuchet and cannons, not science buildings, in order to be ready to DoW on t150 Dynamite. What's the point in t145 Dynamite with no money/hammers to finish building & upgrading artillery until t155? Maybe if I take out loans from everyone right before DoWing... I dunno.
Also, it's really unfortunate that Monte is behind mostly flatland jungle. If I go after anyone else he'll almost certainly DoW, leaving me with a two-front war. I don't mind defending my mountain cities, but I don't want to fight through jungle... CB rushing him would be suicide unless I came from the northwest. I need my troops close to Kilimanjaro to defend my cities from him and Boudicca, so Maria is tricky.
Edinburgh is a nice juicy target though and close enough for my units to come to the rescue in case of DoW. Soooo, the Celts are goin' down!
I think I'll leave a scout near Monte so I can see him coming, and XP on Edinburgh until the inevitable DoW. I don't plan on taking Edinburgh until about t90, so I'll build 8 CB instead of 6, leave 2 on defense and bring 3 more back in case of DoW. I'll probably split my forces at Machinery anyway to go after both Maria and Monte, so 4 CB per army will be necessary. Then it's probably Japan? and India at the same time, followed by Ethiopia and Indonesia, unless I'm wrong in guessing that Japan is closer than Ethiopia.
Also, I may make peace with the Celts when/if Monte DoWs. Killing the Celts last would make the victory faster, most likely. That's why it's so inconvenient that Monte is next to me. I'd prefer to DoW Monte first, but Tlatelolco is going to be a pain to take because of all the cover it has. There's no high ground to shoot at it from unless I go around. And the Celts have less cities than I do, which will make that warmonger hit pretty hefty. Ah well, I may end up with no RAs for artillery, but it doesn't matter. I'm going to mop up at least 3 civs by then anyway.
This is fun! It's shaping up to be my fastest Deity win ever, if things go according to plan.
Monte DoW'd as expected. He also beat me to Petra by 2 turns. (I completed Liberty on T80)
With Petra gone, I used the free GE on NC on t80, instead of waiting 4 turns for Machu Picchu. (Guilds on t84) Possibly a mistake, but it was a huge science boost. Completed Machinery on t98. (personal best!)
My biggest problem now is that Monte has the GW and all that jungle... ugh. But I should be able to smoke him anyway. Another dilemma is that since the celts only built two cities and I have 5, it was an "Extreme" warmonger penalty to cap Edinburgh. But it doesn't matter. Japan and Monte are basically the only threats left on the board. Their capitals are both within spitting distance of my army. After I nuke them, no one will be able to stop me. Indonesia is weak, Ethiopia got eaten by Japan, and Gandhi won't put up much of a fight. I could even pull off a pre-artillery win here, tommynt-style.
Either way, this is going to be a record finish for me.
So, ironically (given another thread where I was defending the value of taking the Range promotion first) I decided to take the Logistics promotion first. As a result, I struggled to make any progress against Monte. I should have taken my own advice, namely: If you're facing the Great Wall, take Range first.
His Knights and XBows (he got them *early*) were picking my front-line units apart. I had to basically surround the capital, moving my troops one-tile per turn, in order to decimate his troops enough that I could soak damage. I lost one of my logistics XBows immediately before I regrouped and changed tactics. All this slowed me down enough that I wasn't able to steamroll Maria before Artillery.
So, pre-Artillery I only managed to capture Kyoto, Edinburgh and Tenochtitlan. Kyoto fell *way easier than Tenochtitlan, despite Japan having more units and higher technology. Partly it was the GW and partly it was Monte having insane production from Petra. Without the Great Wall in the way, and with hills I could fight from, and now finally having Range, my XBows owned Japan's units.
Currently, on turn 165, I have 3 armies: Outside Indonesia's borders, I have 3 artillery, 2 cavalry, 2 landsknecht and two cover 2 musketmen, with only one city between me and the capital. I have the exact same army at Lisbon's borders, ready to attack Maria. I should have two more capitals by t175. Leaving me only with Delhi and Ethiopia's original capital. I'm spamming unit production as fast as I can, using Mercantilism to spawn 160g landsknecht, and using production to build more artillery/musketmen. I should have rifling soon, which should help punch through the last defenses.
Unfortunately, I'll have to slog my way through Japan's ICS sprawl to get to Addis Ababa, because when I captured Kyoto, Japan automatically moved his capital there. I'm not sure how I'm going to manage that much unhappiness. It'd be fine if I wasn't simultaneously attacking two other civs, but I could easily be capturing 3 cities in the space of a few turns.
If I was smart, I would have gotten Addis Ababa in a peace deal when I had Kyoto down to zero health, and then ten turns later annexed it and spammed landsknecht to defend it. That would have left Kyoto an easy target. This was perhaps my biggest tactical error. My current plan is to try to get the cities between me and Addis Ababa in a peace deal, which should get me there faster than capturing them, because that army is all XBows, and Japan just got Rifling. The artillery are about ten turns away because fricking Boudicca built a city on top of my road to Japan when they were making their pilgrimage to Mt Kilimanjaro.
So, I now have 4 capitals including my own, with 4 to go. I believe I can still finish before t200 if all goes well.
I'll post a SS when I get home.
Important lesson learned: When capturing your first capital with CBs, choose your upgrades based on what you'll be facing as your second capital. I could easily have shaved ten turns off my victory by taking Ranged first. There were hills I could have used to attack Monte's units from outside the Great Wall. Instead I had to slowly surround him by walking through the Great Wall. That would have meant capturing Maria's capital by t150, leaving me only 3 targets, and more importantly, I would have been able to chew through more of Japan.
Time for new Deity challenge? I could post one. I think about Rome, Byzantium or India.
I think Japan would be fun. I'd like to play with Japan's reworked uniques.
Well, I was really inefficient with my artillery fighting. And I completely overestimated Gandhi. I could have attacked Delhi on T190 when I capped Jakarta and Addis Ababa, but I waited until I had reinforcements. It was total overkill, as you can probably see from the screenshot. I even had artillery swimming over from Japan. I should have disbanded them to buy artillery and cavalry in Surabaya. I should have been selling universities, and everything else I could, for that matter, to buy artillery and cavalry. After turn 165 I didn't need beakers, and I should have switched to gold focus then too. Tons of things I could improve on. Next time!
Still, this my fastest victory ever on Deity! I was shooting for sub-t200, and I didn't quite get there, but heck, it was close enough. This map is totally doable by t165, if you don't make all the goof-ups I made along the way. Anyway, Inca are fun and seriously OP.
Holy man that's impressive!
This sort of challenges to own self can be good because we should challenge ourselves for things that seems impossible for us.
I guess doing that is the thing.
Went for early GL, as I got a writing tech ruin (t11). Ended up settling 6 cities. 6 of my 7 cities had mountain, and two were coastal for boosting growth by cargo ships. t100 city pop: 13 11 9 5 4 3 3, but all growing very fast.
Cap BO: Scout (x2) GL (t29) NC (t40) Settler (x3) Pyras (t62)
Initial SP: Full liberty (left side first) Patronage (only Consulates) Rationalism (Secularism, then right side)
Tech path: Pottery [Writing(ruin)] Construction Education(t93) Astronomy(t106) Printing Press Plastics(t157). Apollo finished t179.
A faith ruin allowed me to grab Desert Folklore, supplemented with Swords to Plowshares and Religious Community. Faith bought me two GS, the last in t189.
I had 5 DoF for most of the game and managed to sign 3x5 RAs.
Initially, I "convinced" two of Boudiccas workers to come work for me instead. Monty and Boudica was never pleasant towards me after that, but Monty was more or less always at war with one of his neighbors (often instigated by me), and most of his wars ended in a stalemate. However, at ~t170 Oda finished him off in ~15 turns.
Impressive, especially the liberty part!
There is something I'm not doing right, but I can't put my finger on it. I've played this map over and over. I have the advantage of knowing where everything is. I'm employing all the tricks I know, but I just can't seem to get my act together in time to actually war with composite bows. By the time I get an army of 8 CBs Monty is already beyond them.
I was trying to follow Cromagnus' approach, but apparently my micromanagement just isn't up to snuff.
Wow, may try this, looks like a delicious start. River, mountain+hills for terrace farms, desert for folklore and salt+extra lux. Inca starts don't get any better.
And there's that one hill that can produce like 6 food in that mountain crevice there...
Getting your act together in time to war with composite bows is very tough. I suggest you watch Moriarte's videos. He's better at it than I am.
Or tommynt for that matter. He's the king of micromanagement.
Played this one as my second diety, and won a "late" SV again (first was tommynt Polen game, but there with prep help). There is a problem here as far as I can tell, its just to easy to catch up and pass the AI with regards of science. My diety tries have been all about building less wonders, and keeping the AI busy fighting inbetween themself while I somehow balance not to be a main target.
This time I went full Liberty (w/5 cities).. and for the first time in Civ5/BNW didnt open tradition. Did this for testing purposes - mainly to see if Petra was doable at this level without to much sacrifices. Zero Petra, and my border growth made me shake my head several times during the game.. even dipped in to economics for fun but had crap culture pr turn. Also ended up hardbuilding all the parts in the end...
While trying not to get overwhelmed by Monty I kept him busy attacking the others. But he soon started eating up one after another, Japan had one city left and Portugal hang on to their capital, while the only one who had anything left to do where Polynesia. Monty had above 200 mill citizens at the end, he was so huge that when my spaceship went up it didnt really feel like a victory, and why he didnt do something in the end there is beyond me.
Oh, and I once again got to ideologies first... thats normal for most game's I guess?
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