Difference in diff between Norm and Epic?

[Saxif]

Well, title says it all, is epic in any way harder then normal? I have been trying to play Monarch on epic and basically getting no where, now I have it set on normal and am doing much better. I have only won once before on Monarch and have made about 7 attempts, most of them finishing about 500AD.

Does a player need different tactics to pull off a epic win? Or am I getting better starts on normal? I did have very good land on my win and again this time my land is real nice but it also generally feels easier on normal speed!

What gives?

Sax.

 

[JBossch]

In all likelihood you are just having difficulty adjusting your timing. Epic and marathon are generally recognized as being easier, primarily because of the way warfare takes place. For example, researching a key military tech ahead of the AIs will provide that advantage for more turns because of the way the timer scales. However, units still move at the same rate at all difficulties so a player can conquer "faster" in relation to the passage of years, prolonging the advantage and putting off war weariness, etc.

 

[vanatteveldt]

Epic is more suited to a combat-heavy style; normal to a builder style. If you are normally relatively peaceful and go for space / "old fashioned" diplo / culture victories, epic may well be harder.

If you are getting nowhere, does that mean that you are being conquered by the AI?

 

[Saxif]

I do tend to prefer a nice early Space Race win, getting all the teching done in as efficient way as possible is what drives my play style, however I do try for all types of wins as I play.

My first couple of attempts saw me expand to slowly and end up with about 7 cities, thats when I realized I needed to pump out Settlers faster, next game I won a Space Race (1981) but also wiped out the Egyptians and vassalised Hammurabi and Julias Caesar. Couldn't go for the other continent and if I had of done then Kubla Khan would have whipped me!

After that game I tried several times, sometimes getting as far as the 1600's other times much earlier, typically my military wasn't up to scratch and I guess cos military techs take longer coming I couldn't out tech my opponents to a new military tech to put the advantage back into my hands. I find I can tech faster but no matter what I do I don't seem to be able to pump out enough military units. In my first win I had 2 production centers kicking out my army most of the game and thats what it took to keep up with the AI. These last tries though I haven't been able to get the units out fast enough.

Basically I can tech but can't fight very well. In my current game I am doing well, and totally out teching the AI, my military is 5th though about 0.7 of the leading AI I have encountered. My capital is pumping units out and I am rotating unit production in other cities. Its about 0 - 100 AD atm and am playing Huaynan Capac.

Guess it takes practice ...

Sax.

 

[Earthling]

It's a tossup, there's not necessarily a significant difficulty difference, though by your playstyle you can take advantage of things either way. Epic speed leads to war being slightly more important; the AI gets to make more checks to DoW, brand new high-tech defenders can't be built right away, and tech edges in general have more of an effect. For instance on normal speed on large map you really can't send a naval invasion that doesn't face future shock in landing to face the next era of units, on epic this is less true. Normal speeder is thus definitely easier for building/peaceful wins since the same factors can be used against the AI.

Another change on epic is in early exploration and worker moves - they are both more efficient. Espionage is also more important, particulary since many AI spend a ridiculous amount of points on it - there are more chances for spy-related things to happen, but likewise you can make greater use of it.

 

[Jamuka]

Use diplomacy to avoid actually having to build a military. On monarch you CAN keep up with the AI's military production, but it's a pain. Above monarch... dont expect to be close on the power chart for much of the game. Diplomacy and/or massively favorable battle conditions is the way to survive. Dont be afraid to give in to AI demands for techs and gold.
And try to get heroic epic up and going quickly if there are too many difficult AI around.

 

[Monsterzuma]

As stated before, faster speeds make it more difficult for the player to militarily overwhelm the AI and make warring times longer, thus increasing the economic costs of going to war. Also, it's easier to whip defensive units, meaning the defensive side in war is at an advantage.

It is also easier to get "impressive" beaker/turn rates by a certain date at the slower speeds, considering empire development is considerably sped up by the decreased relative costs of workers and increased efficiency of workers.

Military survival can be more a more challenging ordeal on Epic and Marathon, though.

 

[JBossch]

I still think the slower speeds are, on the whole, easier. Don't discount how much more forgiving the slower speeds are. You can invest a lot more turns into dead ends and get away with it than on faster speeds.

 

[Kornaki]

I still think the slower speeds are, on the whole, easier. Don't discount how much more forgiving the slower speeds are. You can invest a lot more turns into dead ends and get away with it than on faster speeds.

I don't think this is true in general; unless it's a military dead end (e.g. I'll declare war and take this city, only to find it's too heavily guarded) you'll probably spend on average 50% more time on those dead ends also, so it should balance out.

 

[JBossch]

^^^ I mean things like beginning research on the wrong tech only to realize you need another one a few turns in. You have spent the same number of turns on the wrong path but you have invested far fewer beakers.

Even the military example doesn't hold because you will have spent the same number of turns marching but fewer years have passed, meaning you are further from losing any tech advantage.

 

[Gliese 581]

The micromanagment skill of the player compared to the AI is more telling on slower speeds because you make many more such decisions overall during the course of a game.

There is as mentionted the higher prob for AI dow though. I'd rather be on normal if I'm in a position on deity where a warmonger has a high probability of attacking me.
On immortal and below however I'd still favour an epic speed in terms of difficulty since it's significantly easier to repel enemy attacks on non-deity.