Different bonuses from religion

[Enigma256]

Some people need to read their history books a little more closely.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Similarities_between_the_Bible_and_the_Qur'an

i was kinda right

 

[jimbob27]

I'd like for there to be bonus's that come with religions..... they could make it so they're randomly assigned, or chosen when the religion is founded. That way there would be no chance of people getting offended.

Maybe even just use some of the leader traits. When you found a religion, you choose a trait associated with it, and then each city that has the religion in it, would get the effects of that trait. Not all traits could be applied to single cities, but there's 11 traits, and 7 religions, so it could easily be done.

 

[Peng Qi]

In my opinion, an ideal system would be something like this.

Buddhism - +50% WW against a Buddhist leader if you declare war on them.
Hinduism - +1 for each religious building
Judaism - +10%
Confucianism - +10%
Taoism - +50% random event appearance
Christianity - +10%
Islam - +1 for each religious building

I'd make it more like this:

Buddhism - +5% great person rate
Hinduism - +10%
Judaism - +5%
Confucianism - +5%
Taoism - +1 , Can draft 1 unit/turn
Christianity - +5%
Islam - +1 XP/unit built in city

 

[Spiceweasel]

we're talking religions, not crazy sects invented by an SciFi author.

To a lot of people, the beliefs of many mainstream religions sound just as absurd as those of "crazy sects".

 

[Enigma256]

that might be so, but still, Scientology is just bad news and a real danger for anyone involved (expect for the rich that suck the money out of the poorer believers)

actually, that might be true for any organized religion...


i gotta found my own religion, there's lots of money to be made

 

[peter450]

Well i think the later religions should provide slightly more bonus's than the early ones since you loose that early start advantage which is a huge bonus, having other civs adopting your religion is a huge boost to early relations and diplomacy, not to mention the other advantages of expanding your borders an culture, this provides a very strong advantage to the 3 early religions, and getting an early religious shrine in the holy city also does wonders for early expansion in terms of your economy, later religions like taoism, islam an christanity are not as good because civ's are generally already established religion wise and it's time consuming to then try an convert them over, not to mention difficult as relations with civs of a differant religion tends to be cautious at best, not only that but the best apsects of what religions provide, early culture, and spread to other civs leading to strong early relations are past, which is why i think the later religions should have something extra to make them worthwhile pursuits

 

[Winston Hughes]

i was kinda right

That's why I said "a little more closely".

Some people need to read their history books a lot more closely.

 

[Ahimsadharma]

If we even consider the idea of religion giving bonuses, we must make it so that these bonuses cannot be harvested concurrently or synergized with free religion.
Otherwise, the whole gameplay becomes too much anti- expansion/anti-war, it becomes a question of 'who can found more religions first + get to free religion first + warp away to tanks and take over the world'.

 

[azzaman333]

If we even consider the idea of religion giving bonuses, we must make it so that these bonuses cannot be harvested concurrently or synergized with free religion.
Otherwise, the whole gameplay becomes too much anti- expansion/anti-war, it becomes a question of 'who can found more religions first + get to free religion first + warp away to tanks and take over the world'.

These bonuses would only apply if you had the religion as the state religion though, otherwise they would be way overpowered.

 

[GenocideBringer]

I'd make it more like this:

Buddhism - +5% great person rate
Hinduism - +10%
Judaism - +5%
Confucianism - +5%
Taoism - +1 , Can draft 1 unit/turn
Christianity - +5%
Islam - +1 XP/unit built in city

None of those make any sense whatsoever.

I fail to see how Buddhism creates more great people (hell, not a lot of Great People were in fact buddhists)

How the hell does hinduism increase culture?

I can't think of any historical basis for Judaism giving a gold bonus other than stereotypes

Confucianism was really a philosophy, nothing that would really increase science.

How would Taoism allow drafting and increase health?

How does Christianity make people more industrious?

Every religion has been used as a vehicle for violence. As such, providing a military bonus to Islam and not other religions makes no sense whatsoever.



Religions are, by and large, very similar when implemented. The differences in religion come from its followers, not from the religion itself. Case in point, the peace-love-Jesusloveseveryone Christianity you see commonly today is not the same Retake-the-holy-land-kill-the-infidels Christianity you saw in the Crusades.

I think the best way to modify religions, is just to allow them to add a third trait. So if you have a particular play style, you could get this third trait. So, religion X also makes you financial, or aggressive... etc.. Does that make sense? I think that would be a simple way to make them more flavorful.

And you would have a point if there was any historical basis for any of this.

So the Crusades never happened? Polygamy never happened in any religions? Morality never happened? The code of laws was never developed?

While I agree religion has more of an impact than the person you quoted thinks, this is just wrong.

Polygamy does not require religion. Morality is subjective and each person has certain things they consider moral or immoral, irrespective of religion. The first written code of laws was done by Hammurabi, and had nothing to do with religion.

we're talking religions, not crazy sects invented by an SciFi author.

There is absolutely nothing about any of the religions in civ IV that makes them any more plausible or less "crazy" than Scientology. However, Scientology has never really had a big influence, so there's no point in adding it.

 

[Peng Qi]

None of those make any sense whatsoever.

I fail to see how Buddhism creates more great people (hell, not a lot of Great People were in fact buddhists)

Then you don't understand Buddhism and reincarnation very well. Does "The Dalai Lama" ring a bell? Guaranteed great person every couple of generations.

How the hell does hinduism increase culture?

You don't think that Hinduism dramatically influenced all eastern religion? I mean, Buddhism and Taoism derive a lot from proto-Hinduism.

I can't think of any historical basis for Judaism giving a gold bonus other than stereotypes

Stereotypes that were often true for most of history, given that Jews were frequently relegated to moneylending due to having very little else to fall back on as they were often prevented from doing other work.

Confucianism was really a philosophy, nothing that would really increase science.

Explain why China was ahead of everyone in technology until about 1600.

How would Taoism allow drafting and increase health?

Taoism tells people to know their roles in life and be content with what they have and do. If your lord tells you that you are a soldier, then you are a soldier; he has that authority over you, and who are you to question it? It also mimics real-world Taoist areas which frequently did rely on conscripts and had large populations.

How does Christianity make people more industrious?

Ask Europe.

 

[GenocideBringer]

Then you don't understand Buddhism and reincarnation very well. Does "The Dalai Lama" ring a bell? Guaranteed great person every couple of generations.

Why has Buddhism not spawned some awesome great people, then? Why is it that there are very few influential people who have also been buddhists?

You don't think that Hinduism dramatically influenced all eastern religion? I mean, Buddhism and Taoism derive a lot from proto-Hinduism.

Which has to do with Hinduism being widespread, not with anything inherent in Hinduism.

Stereotypes that were often true for most of history, given that Jews were frequently relegated to moneylending due to having very little else to fall back on as they were often prevented from doing other work.

Which is a result of peoples' reaction to the religion, not a quality of the religion itself.

Explain why China was ahead of everyone in technology until about 1600.

Had little to do with Confucius. That's like saying that Athens was advanced for its time solely because of Archimedes.

Taoism tells people to know their roles in life and be content with what they have and do. If your lord tells you that you are a soldier, then you are a soldier; he has that authority over you, and who are you to question it? It also mimics real-world Taoist areas which frequently did rely on conscripts and had large populations.

1) Real-world taoist areas that draft would do so because of the government (e.g. the Nationhood civic), not the religion.

2) I fail to see how either of those things you listed produces health. Many religions are used by those in power to keep their followers placated.

Ask Europe.

Had nothing to do with Christianity, and everything to do with the Industrial Revolution occurring there.

 

[BYC]

This is not a good idea, and not even because of all the problems with stereotyping and piegonholing traits into things that might not even fit them.

It's bad just because if the effects are all similar, then whoever gets them first (all the Mysticism civs) get them, and can lock down most of them without too much trouble.

There really doesn't need to add even MORE complication to an already delicate balance. It's almost assured whatever bonuses for being of a religion will be really good with the Incas with their financial trait. Or how do we even balance it since Choose Religion is an option in custom game.

If a bonus is too good, it'll just snowball that civ until they win. If it's too weak, then it's not really worth having is it?

 

[Peng Qi]

Why has Buddhism not spawned some awesome great people, then? Why is it that there are very few influential people who have also been buddhists?

Why is your education so westernized? Buddhism has spawned many great people, you have just never heard of them, apparently.

Which has to do with Hinduism being widespread, not with anything inherent in Hinduism.

I think the polytheistic, modular nature of Hinduism is what caused its spread, not just that it happened to exist and so...ta-da! It spread.

Which is a result of peoples' reaction to the religion, not a quality of the religion itself.

Irrelevant.

Had little to do with Confucius. That's like saying that Athens was advanced for its time solely because of Archimedes.

Archimedes sure didn't hurt. Maybe you should study some Confucianism.

1) Real-world taoist areas that draft would do so because of the government (e.g. the Nationhood civic), not the religion.

But such states drafted long before the Nationhood civic is available in Civ.

2) I fail to see how either of those things you listed produces health. Many religions are used by those in power to keep their followers placated.

I just added the health thing because of the populations of Taoist areas having been high comparatively speaking in the ancient world.

Had nothing to do with Christianity, and everything to do with the Industrial Revolution occurring there.

And why do you think the Industrial Revolution occurred there?

 

[Love]

Why can't you just give up?

 

[Peng Qi]

Why can't you just give up?

Oh, I'm against different religions having different bonuses specifically because of disagreements like the one I'm having now.

 

[Love]

Well, i like azzamans proposal...