Dilemma in settling capital

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Strategy & Tips' started by vranasm, Jun 26, 2010.

  1. vranasm

    vranasm Deity

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    Wanted to try some random game instead of the influx of NC games and got interresting position at start that baffles me a bit. it's monarch difficulty (epic speed) and map script is Continents.
    Leader is Hannibal (financial - expecting CE)

    How you would settle in this position?


    There is a lot of flood plains to north, a lot of food to south, but SIP will get me 5 FPs in BFC (and that is a lot -health, have not much success with cities overflown with FP) and only 2 hills.

    So that's why I have a bit dilemma, i usually SIP believing random generator. But this time I think about settling 1SW from starting position in the woods, to still have all those food resources, less FP and 1 more hill to work (and still will have some riverside tiles for cottages).

    Another question would be about what to work and research, i would incline to starting with workboat, since crabs will get me a lot of commerce and good enough food. And skipping maybe aggri and getting something else (but what?)
     
  2. Revenant

    Revenant Warlord

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    Personally I'd SIP. I don't think the :yuck: would be too bad, counteracted by having fresh water and some forest, even before getting the corn and seafood online. Extra production for settling the plains hill too. Nice little boost at the beginning.

    As for research I'm never really sure what's best for a seafood start. I'd probably go Agri first and then fishing, but that's probably not the most efficient way of doing things. Getting pottery early though is a definite priority though, all those financial riverside floodplain cottages :drool:

    Can you post the initial save? I want to try my hand at this one
     
  3. vranasm

    vranasm Deity

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    Hannibal already has fishing, that's why I can build workboat first

    edit: save posted here as attachment
     
  4. Revenant

    Revenant Warlord

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    Oh that changes everything, silly me :blush:

    I'd still settle in place though. The plains hill will get the workboat out quickly
     
  5. Framesticker

    Framesticker Prince

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    I'd SIT and scout the area around that peak. Early in the game when your cities won't get bigger than 5-6 due to the happy cap (depends on the resources you got, Charismatic helps here), it's not worth planning for 20-tile cities. In this case, I'd SIT and make the capital a temporary (perhaps permanent) GP farm with the Corn and the Crabs while trying to settle 1-2 cities to cottage all these FPs.
     
  6. NihilZero

    NihilZero WHEOOHRNY

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    I would settle in place here. Plains hills are nice city sites, unhealth really won't be a problem since you will want a Cothon in your cap anyway and you have fresh water.
     
  7. lymond

    lymond Rise Up! (Phoenix Style!) Moderator Hall of Fame Staff

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    Actually, you have 6 flood plains but it's not a problem. This is a very good start and I would definitely settle in place. You might just chop 2 forests for a while and keep 4 for the bonus until cothon/aqueducts/grocer comes (spice health bonus w/ grocer). Forested spice serves as a decent non-improved tile until calendar, but you could cottage it too. This will be a fine Bureau cap
     
  8. vranasm

    vranasm Deity

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    Interresting that everyone would go with SIP, so I take it as best beginning then.

    Build order then should be WB, worker or 2x WB? in BFC there is no unforrested hills and even if i start with mining(and i do) I could not use it until BW, that leads to wasting a lot of worker turns if I go worker second.
    Techs would be probably something along the lines aggri->pottery->bw? or aggri->bw->pottery?
     
  9. CivilizedTiger

    CivilizedTiger Prince

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    I would build 2 workboats here even if I weren't financial, but with financial, I think it's even better.

    Don't forget to build cottages. ;) (but not in the city of Carthage herself)
     
  10. DaveMcW

    DaveMcW Deity

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    Settle in place, build worker.
     
  11. lymond

    lymond Rise Up! (Phoenix Style!) Moderator Hall of Fame Staff

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    Use 3H plains hill (after border pop) to get out work boat quicker, with an occasional flip to coastal tile for research boost.
     
  12. lymond

    lymond Rise Up! (Phoenix Style!) Moderator Hall of Fame Staff

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    Also, I might consider delaying BW here. Shoot for AH>TW>Pottery and hope for some horsies. Chopping is limited and the forest plains is serviceable for hammers in short term. Cottaged FP, however will be HUGE and granary for health. Start teching BW when you get an announcement that someone has switched to Slavery.

    I'd also consider switch to worker during the second WB build and growth to pop two - judge this against how techs come in
     
  13. CivilizedTiger

    CivilizedTiger Prince

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    Monarch is the difficulty in which the barbs start to be relevant, and I don't particularly agree with getting AH just in the hope of finding horses, without any visible AH resource in the BFC. BW at least unlocks a civic which will be rather useful in this first city.

    But anyway, I think that in monarch epic, the idea that you can't gamble for both horses and bronze already applies, so you might even consider archery if you don't find the strategic resource that you first search for.
     
  14. lymond

    lymond Rise Up! (Phoenix Style!) Moderator Hall of Fame Staff

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    Well, you know my thoughts on archery. AH has multiple value (lots of AH resources usually in vicinity - health/food, speeds up writing, UU). BW or AH may show the strat resource on that open grassland or not. Either way, Monarch barbs are highly manageable with warriors. I would not be whipping this city until a bit after the first settler anyway, at which time BW may be in. Other Civs getting BW first reduces the cost. Basically this start does not scream BW.

    Maybe TW>Pottery and then decision on AH/BW after scouting.
     
  15. CivilizedTiger

    CivilizedTiger Prince

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    Yeah, I know what you think about archery, and many other high level players seem to agree with you. However, with the barbs, I've come to realize that US was right: all advice offered by high level players is offered along with the hidden clause of "this will work if you do everything else well/the way I do".

    When it comes to barbs, I've found out that I just can't go with the high-level advice. I know what spawnbusting is, and yet I simply can not rely on it, as my warriors just get killed too often by archers, and when spearmen show up, it all goes down the drain if I don't have any archers and no bronze. Who knows, maybe vranasm will fare better than me here, but I can only give the advice as I see it. In all my monarch games so far, I've found exactly that I can't rely on warriors. You need 8+ to bust a large enough chunk of land whenever you aren't boxed in by the AI, and by the time you have all 8 warriors out on the field, barbs already have archers and ruin your plans.
     
  16. GreenShift84

    GreenShift84 Chieftain

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    My vote is for SIP and research agriculture, build worker first for the wet corn.
     
  17. lymond

    lymond Rise Up! (Phoenix Style!) Moderator Hall of Fame Staff

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    you'll get there, CT...by the way, fortified promoted warriors are actually quite effective against spearmen.
     
  18. huerfanista

    huerfanista Emperor

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    :agree: I don't like WB first. TW> pottery, pick up AH before your first settler comes out.
     
  19. vranasm

    vranasm Deity

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    A lot of interresting advice :) will have it think through (and I am a bit lucky I didnt do "round" of this game yet :-D).

    Archery here could be good, because UU is horse archer, but it depends on number of neighbours, distance etc if HA rush is in order.

    @huefarnista
    I kind of don't know how many turns is TW->pottery, but worker at epic is out latest 23T (with 2,2,1 city less) and if I go worker first and no WB, what the worker will do after he goes out, or you suggest starting with warrior? Aggri I don't have, hills are forrested and Cottage probably will have some time to tech.

    Interresting that general consensus is get running cottages ASAP and I definitely see why :)
     
  20. GreenShift84

    GreenShift84 Chieftain

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    Worker first - The irrigated corn is your best tile and needs to be improved asap. Even if he ends up idle for a few turns, which he shouldnt with the wheel coming soon, it wouldnt be a big deal because the improved corn is worth it. In fact, a second worker should be planned for sooner rather than later (I would probably get another worker before the first settler, but this can change depending on surroundings). The floodplains will take many turns to develop and youll want another worker for chopping/roading.

    After the worker is built, start on a wb and work the 3H plains hill until the corn is farmed. Then grow to size 2 with the corn, build warrior after first wb.
     

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