Dino Talk: are birds dinosaurs?

[carlosMM]

This is an offspring of an evolution thread that had to be closed due to namecalling. Please behave here! No 'you creationists/evolutionists are idiots' posts please!

and please: if you do not beliece in evolution, refrain from posting here. This is ment as a thread to discuss science, not beliefs!

Birds are dinosaurs (says the scientist).

What do YOU think? Why?

 

[col]

Originally posted by carlosMM
Birds are dinosaurs (says the scientist).

Far be it from me to argue with a respected paleontologist famous for his handling of dino droppings but

Birds were dinosaurs.

 

[floppa21]

Gotta go with Col on this. Birds are birds.

 

[Laughing Gull]

doesn't 'dinosaur' translate to Terrible Lizard? If so, then no. Birds are not dinsaurs because birds are not lizards.


Edit:

Isn't the term dinosaur just a bit too general?, seeing as how some "dinosaurs" went on to eveolve into various mammals and birds, some like the aligator didn't change much at all.

I propse the term dinosaur be replaced with "extinct ancestors of modern animals". what is that in Latin?

 

[Smaasnekje]

I believe they are. They said so on children-tv

 

[col]

Nice try. Carlos. But you cant fool the denizens of CFC OT so easily.

Dinosaurs are big things that chase people in films. Birds are little things with feathers.

 

[Aphex_Twin]

Yes, Bob Bakker... I remember him doing an interesting analogy between the bones of a dinosaur and the bones of a freshly consumed fried turkey... Very instructing

If birds are dinosaurs, then we may as well say humans are celenterates

 

[carlosMM]

Originally posted by Laughing Gull
doesn't 'dinosaur' translate to Terrible Lizard? If so, then no. Birds are not dinsaurs because birds are not lizards.

not so. saurus = reptile here..... birds ARE reptiles in the sense of repitle meant by Sir Richard Owen back then (though he didn#t realize that)

but even iF they were named terrible lizards that doesn't make them lizards! if I call a Ford POS a Ferrari is still will not be one

 

[anarchywrksbest]

No no no! Birds are not dinosaurs.

The question shouldn't be "are birds dinosaurs?" but "where did birds come from?"

They had to evolve from something and looking at the structure of a birds spine and leg bones it may be possible that they evolved from smaller bi-pedal dinosaurs. Certainly there were large flying dinosaurs such but there were also smaller flying ones. . .with feathers.

 

[carlosMM]

Originally posted by Aphex_Twin
Yes, Bob Bakker... I remember him doing an interesting analogy between the bones of a dinosaur and the bones of a freshly consumed fried turkey... Very instructing

If birds are dinosaurs, then we may as well say humans are celenterates

I'd be shocked if you didn't have a coelom......

but, actually, the realtionship is much closer for dinos and birds...

 

[carlosMM]

Originally posted by anarchywrksbest
No no no! Birds are not dinosaurs.

The question shouldn't be "are birds dinosaurs?" but "where did birds come from?"

They had to evolve from something and looking at the structure of a birds spine and leg bones it may be possible that they evolved from smaller bi-pedal dinosaurs. Certainly there were large flying dinosaurs such but there were also smaller flying ones. . .with feathers.

hm, are you mixing pterosaurs (large bat-like flying reptiles) up with dinosaurs?

 

[Laughing Gull]

Originally posted by carlosMM


not so. saurus = reptile here..... birds ARE reptiles in the sense of repitle meant by Sir Richard Owen back then (though he didn#t realize that)

but even iF they were named terrible lizards that doesn't make them lizards! if I call a Ford POS a Ferrari is still will not be one

Birds have warm blood. reptiles do not.

your car anaolgy fails to realize that both a Ford and a Ferarri are both automobile.

Like I said above, the term "dinosaur" should be made obsolete.

 

[carlosMM]

Originally posted by Laughing Gull
Birds have warm blood. reptiles do not.
your car anaolgy fails to realize that both a Ford and a Ferarri are both automobile.
Like I said above, the term "dinosaur" should be made obsolete.

ahem, by 'reptile' you mean crocodiles and lizards and turtles and snakes?

 

[anarchywrksbest]

Actually CarlosMM i know pterosaurs aren't dinosaurs. But I couldn't remember how to spell it and didn't want to look stupid, so I wrote "flying dinosaurs" in the hope nobody would pick up on it.

Sadly you did.

 

[Laughing Gull]

( I do agree that most modern birds are direct decendants of certain types of "dinosaur". mainly the ones who's skeletons look a lot like certain dinosaur skeletons)

plus I have seen photos of dinosaur fossils where there was a clear imprint of a feather-like substance surrounding the bone fossiles. it was in Nat'l geographic.

EDit: is patronizing the topic allowed in this forum?

 

[carlosMM]

Originally posted by anarchywrksbest
Actually CarlosMM i know pterosaurs aren't dinosaurs. But I couldn't remember how to spell it and didn't want to look stupid, so I wrote "flying dinosaurs" in the hope nobody would pick up on it.

Sadly you did.

i suspected as much

OK, so you think birds show great similarity with small feathered theropods?

who ELSE could be bird ancestors?

 

[BorgeoisBuffoon]

Dangit, Laughing Gull got to it first. ;_;

I think they evolved from dinosaurs. The similarities are striking, and even Archeopteryx looks like a 'saur when you see its skeleton-and it's officially avian!

 

[carlosMM]

Originally posted by Laughing Gull
( I do agree that most modern birds are direct decendants of certain types of "dinosaur". mainly the ones who's skeletons look a lot like certain dinosaur skeletons)

plus I have seen photos of dinosaur fossils where there was a clear imprint of a feather-like substance surrounding the bone fossiles. it was in Nat'l geographic.

EDit: is patronizing the topic allowed in this forum?

OK, got you!
now, what is it about the term 'dinosaur' that you do not like? And why do you imply that dinosaurs were NOT warmblooded? I think they were - indications?




and on your edit: yes

 

[Laughing Gull]

ooo

stumper


my contention is that "Dinosaur" reffers to reptile or lizard, clearly not a sufficiant name to give to such a varried range of organizims. these "dinosaurs" were by no means limited to reptiles. some had feathers (proto-birds), some had hairs and squirted milk from the tit. (proto-mammals) some were straight-up lizards (reptiles).

I believe the Tricerotops was more related to the mammilian Rhino than it was to a lizard, for example.

I did not imply that dinosaurs were not warm blooded. In fact that is the direct opposite of my theory.


My whole point is the term "dinosaur" sucks.

 

[anarchywrksbest]

Originally posted by carlosMM


i suspected as much

OK, so you think birds show great similarity with small feathered theropods?

who ELSE could be bird ancestors?

Who else? I'm not a big expert on dinosaur or bird physiology but I could see it being any of many small "bird like" dinosaurs.

Of course people forget that at one point Birds ruled the earth, being the largest animals on the planet.