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Diplo victory & espionage...

Discussion in 'Civ5 - General Discussions' started by Magean, Apr 30, 2013.

  1. Magean

    Magean Prince

    Aug 7, 2009
    Hi all,
    I had not played Civ V since last summer, but now I'd like to start another game...

    I was thinking about going for diplomatic victory, on King level.

    However I remember how broken it was before the Fall patch.
    I was playing Sweden and almost got mad when city-states to whom I had given Great people were turned down by foreign spies toppling the government there. Those coup d'etat happened so often that any invested money (or worst, great people...) seemed wasted.
    Moreover, sometimes Bismarck the runaway flipped my CS while we were at war ; as a consequence I couldn't give gold to increase the probability of a successful counter-coup... which reminded me of this poor strategy where you use war as a mean to secure diplomatic victory because it's impossible to make separate peace with CS.

    That's why I'd like to know if diplo victory is now improved, with the fall patch. Especially, is espionage less game-breaking? Are coup less likely to succeed?

    Finally, could you give me some advice for this kind of victory ?

    Thanks in advance
  2. IronCrown

    IronCrown Black Foe of the World

    Jun 21, 2007
    As a new player myself I had one AI staging coups in one of my allied city states all the time. In my last game, I was allied, then AI stages coup. I buy the CS back next turn, same turn another coup. This went on for four turns in a row, then I gave up. I don't know how to make those coups fail, it seems to work every single time for the AI :confused: (I had one of my own spies in the city.)

    Well, later on I got the CS back after I had eliminated the AI that had staged all the coups, still seems odd that someone can stage a coup every single turn and always succeed :rolleyes:
  3. apocalypse105

    apocalypse105 Deity

    May 17, 2011
    Firaxing knowing coups will not be changed because the AI knows how to handle them however its completly unbalanced
  4. kaspergm

    kaspergm Deity

    Aug 19, 2012
    Turn of Espionage, live happily forever after, problem solved!
  5. Novalia

    Novalia Prince

    Aug 23, 2012
    Coup success % chance decreases for the AI the more influence you have. If you have barely more influence than the AI then their chance of success is very high. Unless you can pump way more gold into them to vault you way past them in influence in one turn... Say 1000 gold.. then it is likely a losing battle for you. You're likely giving them 250 each time. They're coup success % is probably around 86%. Give them 1k and their spy will likely die next try.
  6. Jaybe

    Jaybe civus fanaticus Supporter

    Sep 24, 2001
    Las Vegas, Nevada
    Though if I were the AI, I would seed the coup attempt with a gold infusion of my own to improve my chances.

    With the frustration I have sometimes with AI coups, I wonder if the AI even actually DO so.
  7. bryanw1995

    bryanw1995 Emperor

    Oct 10, 2006
    San Antonio, TX
    Also, more experienced spies flip much better. I had the "constant flipping" issue the other day with bucharest. On the last enemy flip, I only had a 5% chance to flip back. So I sent my most experienced spy in there, and he had a 58% (!!) chance to flip it back, which he successfully did. Then I pumped in some gold and the AI gave up.
  8. JJOne

    JJOne Prince

    Jan 29, 2011
    The description says you get the influence the revolt organizer previously had. I seem to get AI coups with them having 10 influence while I have 100.
    Spying is nice, but it's simply a bit to random - on one game I managed to get 5 techs through spying, on another I got like 7 techs stolen with no foreign spy kill, while my external spy gets killed in the fifth iroquis city in population.
  9. joncnunn

    joncnunn Senior Java Wizard Moderator

    Mar 17, 2008
    The AI shouldn't be able to coup & rig elections if at war with that city state any more with that fall patch.

    But you do need to defend your key city states with spies.
    There's actually no need to have lots of allies most of the game when going for Diplomatic; in fact its cheaper to wait til the end to do so given influence decay.
    And DOWing everybody the turn before the vote is indeed the best tactic to ensure you keep your city states, but in G&K major powers are unable to vote for themselves so it could be counter productive to DOW the ones your in friendly relations with.
  10. Magean

    Magean Prince

    Aug 7, 2009
    Thank you all for your answers.

    While there was for sure a problem with coups in enemy CS, I think the devs chose the bad way out of it.
    In my opinion, the problem was that it was impossible to buy a former-allied now enemy CS where a coup had been staged. The randomness of coups had a monopoly over alliance-flipping during war, and I think the solution was to somehow enable gold gifts to enemy CS.

    That's why the devs have IMHO chosen the bad way out of it, since the "declare war and secure your alliances" thing is still here.

    Alas, I like tech stealing. It puts a strain to mid-game determinism where a runaway is unstoppable.
  11. OwlRaider

    OwlRaider Chieftain

    Jan 19, 2013
    If you're playing as Sweden there's no reason for you to be struggling with coups. Just play aggressively enough to get a healthy stream of great generals/admirals to donate to city states for massive influence points each time. The AI simply can't match that. Than add the Patronage policies(a staple if going for a diplomatic victory) and some gold of your own when needed and you should easily be able to keep all the city states you want. If all else fails put your own spy in problematic city states to counter the AI's spies.

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