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Diplomacy Enemy Capital Loyalty Problem

Discussion in 'Civ6 - General Discussions' started by Bojmir, Aug 1, 2020.

  1. UWHabs

    UWHabs Deity

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    Best way to play diplomatically is when it becomes a free city, capture it and liberate it to its original owner, and then rinse and repeat as long as it keeps flipping. Bonus points if it happens to be their last city.
     
    8housesofelixir and kryat like this.
  2. TheMarshmallowBear

    TheMarshmallowBear Benelovent Chieftain of the BearKingdom

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    For those curious, this is the tooltip for the "Refuse Option"

    "Refuse to let this city join your empire. It will remain a Free City.

    This city will be immune to Loyalty pressure from your cities and governors, and will not ask to join your civilization again. It could still be won over by a different civilization."
     
    Meluhhan and Pfeffersack like this.
  3. kryat

    kryat King

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    I could be mistaken, but in my experience, the tooltip is not precisely accurate. A more accurate explanation is that it will never receive loyalty pressure from you again until someone claims it. I swear I remember a OCC game I was playing where Spain settled near me, it flipped to free, then to me, I refused, it went to my next nearest neighbor (Norway, I think?), then back to free (due to my pressure) then tried to join me again.
     
  4. Galvatron

    Galvatron Warlord

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    He's not warmongering so he shouldn't have to.

    That was in no way anything resembling peaceful. If troops are involved it's not peaceful... and we're supposed to not discuss modern topics btw.

    Annexation is forceful, not peaceful.
     
  5. Pure24

    Pure24 Warlord

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    He should if he doesn't want a diplo penalty. If he doesn't mind the penalty, then he can get it. The option is there, and each choice has its own consequences.

    I think it's fair that if you get a capital by loyalty flipping you still get the penalty. This is for two reasons:

    - loyalty flipping is NOT passive. It is diplomatic harm done to another region. You're basically enticing them to leave their empire and join yours. So of course you'll lose diplomatic capital for doing it. Even in the game, you can actively change your loyalty pressure depending on many things. A free city is hostile to its parent empire, and so thanks to your machinations you were a hostile entity, even if done indirectly or not violently so.
    - Nations generally don't take kindly to separatist movements in other areas; such autonomous regions find it difficult to gain global recognition, and countries who 'assimilate' them take a diplomatic hit on the global stage as well. Peaceful doesn't necessarily mean good
     
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2020
    Meluhhan, Pfeffersack and Josephias like this.
  6. Pietato

    Pietato Emperor

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    Eleanor needs to be updated to not lose favour from taking capitals.
     
    Galvatron likes this.
  7. Aurelesk

    Aurelesk Warlord

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    The Diplomatic Favor penalty was introduced as a way to punish warmonger when conquering a civilization and wiping them out as a way to gain the Diplomatic Victory. Instead of a flat -5 Diplomatic Favor per Capital in possession that is in effect for eternity, they should link it by how much territory gain or the grievance mechanic. For example:

    Spoiler :

    • At the start of the War, the game count the number of tiles to each civilization. If you conquer:
      • At least 20% of the territory: -1 Diplomatic Favor.
      • At least 40% of the territory: -2 Diplomatic Favor.
      • At least 60% of the territory: -3 Diplomatic Favor.
      • At least 80% of the territory: -4 Diplomatic Favor.
      • You are wiping out the civilization: -6 Diplomatic Favor*
        • If the civilization has less than 5 cities, the Diplomatic Favor penalty increases by 1 per city, even if the city is less than 20% or more than 40% of the territory of the civilization.
    • Capturing the origin Capital by any means, including Loyalty pressure, yield -2 Diplomatic Favor.
    • Every 20 turns of the game, the Diplomatic Favor penalty decrease by 1.
    * : Wiping out a Civilization by war and capturing the Capital will face a -8 DF per turn, and you will need 160 turns to make this disappear.

    With this new method, warmonger are punished hard. If you did some soft warmongering in the early game, the Diplomatic Favor penalty will eventually fade away. After all, nobody nowadays considers that Istanbul isn't rightfully Turkish, except of course the Greeks: Constantinople fall more than 500 years ago.
     
    Meluhhan likes this.
  8. Archon_Wing

    Archon_Wing Vote for me or die

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    Only two choices:

    Take the capital and eat the favor penalty (honestly 5 favor is not that big of a deal). Sell all your favor if you're going negative.

    Refuse and liberate it by force.
     
  9. oSiyeza

    oSiyeza Prince

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    The main issue for me is that if you conquer two civs early game (even before diplomacy or grievances exist) you will be punished with an eternal -10 per turn df modifier that makes the WC and the competitions completely useless and gives you no choice to play diplomatically or peacefully for the rest of the game.

    In other words, they turned the way to play into an all or nothing situation, where you cannot play organically but have to commit to be peaceful or warmonguer. I honestly dont like playing this way. The only reason I came back to the game after my first game with the penalty, is because there is a mod that makes it reasonable.
     

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