Diplomacy Overview window confusing as hell?

[Zalakat]

Thus far, diplomacy is my biggest issue with this otherwise fantastic game, particularly the RIDICULOUS Diplomacy Overview window and UI.

The diplomacy window is just confusing to look at. I'm many many games in now, and I still don't understand what I'm looking at here.

What are the numbers next to each nation's logo? Their score? Is that some type of numerical ranking for their attitude towards me? On that note, how do I even know what my diplomatic relationship is with any country, besides having to open a trade window and guess based off the way they greet me?

Sometimes I will see the word HOSTILE buried in a civ's block, but never FRIENDLY or ALLIED.

I'll see DEFENSIVE PACT a lot... wtf is that? I never signed one of those. Oh wait, did you mean "Pact of Cooperation"? WTF is a "Pact of Cooperation" anyway? What about a "Pact of Secrecy"?

It will say OPEN BORDERS in civs I have no such agreement with. Does that mean their borders are open to someone else? Is it come one, come all in their crib?

Whats up with the GOLD and GOLD PER TURN numbers that randomly appear? Is that the maximum amount of GPT they can afford? Do they have a GPT agreement with someone else? Definitely not with me. Or it will say a civ has, for example, 400 gold, but then I'll open a discussion with them and be told they can't afford a research agreement.

I'm just totally at a loss with this diplomacy feature. Unless I'm really missing something, it's either bugged to the point of worthlessness, or so confusing as to have the same effect.

Can anybody enlighten me on which it is?

 

[TheMan232]

The defensive pact is an agreement that if they are attacked, you will defend them.

The "Open Borders" that you see means that they have the technology to sign an open borders agreement (can't remember what it is). It may also say Research Agreement or Defensive Pact, it's just to let you know what kind of agreements they can sign.

The numbers are their scores, just like the one by you. The only difference is that it won't break down the AI scores like it will for yours.

The Pact of Cooperation is just an agreement to help improve relations. If you can get someone to sign one, it'll be easier to trade, and they'll be less likely to sneak attack you. The Secrecy pact is an agreement to help each other against one other civ. Since the other civ doesn't know about it (hence, secrecy), it won't hurt your relations with them until it's time to fight.

As far as attitudes, the only way is to see how they're talking to you. All it takes is to click on their logo. If they say something like nice to see you, then they like you. If you get something about being bloodthirsty or untrustworthy, they don't like you. Pretty straight forward.

 

[Zalakat]

The defensive pact is an agreement that if they are attacked, you will defend them.

That much is obvious. How did it get there? Is that the same as a "Pact of Cooperation"? Because I never signed anything about mutual defense.

The "Open Borders" that you see means that they have the technology to sign an open borders agreement (can't remember what it is). It may also say Research Agreement or Defensive Pact, it's just to let you know what kind of agreements they can sign.

Sometimes I will have no active deals with a civ, and in the trade window OPEN BORDERS will be grayed out and if I hover over it, it says "Already allowing open borders!" And civs with both of those conditions will have it displayed. Furthermore, by that token, anybody without DEFENSIVE PACT displayed would imply that I do, in fact, have a defensive agreement with them, per your logic above. That doesn't make sense.

The numbers are their scores, just like the one by you. The only difference is that it won't break down the AI scores like it will for yours.

I keep hearing people say "like the one by you." The civ you are playing isn't even in the list, only other civs. What number are you talking about? Are you in the Diplomacy Overview window? Because your score isn't on any of the three tabs.

 

[TheMan232]

That much is obvious. How did it get there? Is that the same as a "Pact of Cooperation"? Because I never signed anything about mutual defense.

No, they're entirely different. In a Pact of Cooperation, you're not pledged to defend them when they're attacked, but they will probably come ask for your help.

Furthermore, by that token, anybody without DEFENSIVE PACT displayed would imply that I do, in fact, have a defensive agreement with them, per your logic above. That doesn't make sense.

No, it would imply that they haven't researched the prerequisite technology yet for a defensive pact.

I keep hearing people say "like the one by you." The civ you are playing isn't even in the list, only other civs. What number are you talking about? Are you in the Diplomacy Overview window? Because your score isn't on any of the three tabs.

Sorry, I was referencing the numbers when you click on the globe. But the AI's numbers there are the same as the ones on the Overvirew screen, in case you didn't notice.

Also, the Gold(##) is how much they have in their treasury, and the Gold Per Turn (##) is how much they make per turn. As far as the Research Agreement goes, again, if it won't let you sign one, they may not have the prerequisite tech. If they do and it still won't let you sign one, I don't know what to tell you; I've never had that happen. I've also never had the game tell me I had an Open Borders agreement with a Civ that I didn't, so I can't help you there, either.

 

[gunter]

Thus far, diplomacy is my biggest issue with this otherwise fantastic game, particularly the RIDICULOUS Diplomacy Overview window and UI.

The diplomacy window is just confusing to look at. I'm many many games in now, and I still don't understand what I'm looking at here.

What are the numbers next to each nation's logo? Their score? Is that some type of numerical ranking for their attitude towards me? On that note, how do I even know what my diplomatic relationship is with any country, besides having to open a trade window and guess based off the way they greet me?

Sometimes I will see the word HOSTILE buried in a civ's block, but never FRIENDLY or ALLIED.

I'll see DEFENSIVE PACT a lot... wtf is that? I never signed one of those. Oh wait, did you mean "Pact of Cooperation"? WTF is a "Pact of Cooperation" anyway? What about a "Pact of Secrecy"?

It will say OPEN BORDERS in civs I have no such agreement with. Does that mean their borders are open to someone else? Is it come one, come all in their crib?

Whats up with the GOLD and GOLD PER TURN numbers that randomly appear? Is that the maximum amount of GPT they can afford? Do they have a GPT agreement with someone else? Definitely not with me. Or it will say a civ has, for example, 400 gold, but then I'll open a discussion with them and be told they can't afford a research agreement.

I'm just totally at a loss with this diplomacy feature. Unless I'm really missing something, it's either bugged to the point of worthlessness, or so confusing as to have the same effect.

Can anybody enlighten me on which it is?

Ah you have read my mind and posted, these are exactly the same questions that surface each time I open the diplomacy screen. A rebus for me.

 

[gunter]

How am I allowed to know their treasure ? Spies ?

 

[Mightion]

Maybe I missed something, but is there a screen that shows what the different AI civs think about each other? Like the "diplomacy web" in Civ 4?

 

[NZV]

The larger diplomacy overview window shows what they CAN trade, not what you are trading. So if it says "defensive pact" or "300 gold", that means they can form a defensive pact with you and have 300 gold to trade with. I find it useful when I want to pawn off some resources/a city or make a trade agreement and need to quickly check how much cash everyone has on them.

I agree that it is confusing at first though.

Maybe I missed something, but is there a screen that shows what the different AI civs think aboqut each other? Like the "diplomacy web" in Civ 4?

No. Which is unfortunate. Though you can kinda gauge how they feel about other civs if they keep bugging you for war declarations/pacts of secrecy. In my current game, EVERYONE constantly asks me to form pacts/wars against Siam, so I don't trade with Siam because I don't want to piss off everyone else.

 

[Thor7]

What I don't understand is, everything in this game seems so dumbed down and precise, no randomness to battles, just hit points and combat values, no sliders and multipliers, everything produces a static amount of food/happiness/gold. Yet diplomacy is a complete mystery. There are no numbers attached to it. I guess that's how the developers wanted it to diplomacy was more feeling the other guy out and esoteric decisions instead of just a numbers game of "If I get Mhemed to +8 relations he'll turn friendly and won't attack me." It just seems to contradict the rest of the game.

 

[kaltorak]

diplomacy? you mean the trade window? there is no diplomacy on civ5

 

[gunter]

I guess that's how the developers wanted it to diplomacy was more feeling the other guy out and esoteric decisions instead of just a numbers game of "If I get Mhemed to +8 relations he'll turn friendly and won't attack me." It just seems to contradict the rest of the game.

Exactly IMO what devs wanted you to perceive. An esotheric entity trying to simulate an human unpredictable behaviour .

That's not possible, better to have clear numbers