Diplomacy - Should We trade Alphabet for Metal Casting?

[Sommerswerd]

ONCE YOU HAVE CAST YOUR VOTE, DO NOT POST ON THE POLL THREAD TO SAY YOU ARE CHANGING VOTES. VOTE CHANGING IS STRICTLY PROHIBITED. ALL VOTES ARE FINAL.

Also, please try to limit your posts on this poll to ONE POST. Additional comments arguments, etc., should go in the SANCTA Embassy & Intelligence thread.

Happy Polling!!!

Explanation of Choices

Choices:

Yes, we should offer to trade Alphabet to SANCTA for Metal Casting

No, we should not offer to trade Alphabet to SANCTA for Metal Casting

These are the underlying issues that prompted this poll
1. Are WE willing to give up Alpha? - This is the most important question, because if the answer is no, then the rest does not matter.

2. Are we willing to let Cavalieros to give up Alpha? - If WE are willing to give up Alpha, then surely we are willing to let Cavalieros to give it up. So this question seems redundant... it does not need to be polled. Also, Cavalieros is already operating under the assumption that we are NOT willing to let them trade away Alpha. That is the hold-up on the trade... that we have not decided whether we are willing to let SANCTA have Alpha at all.

3. Are Cavalieros willing to let us give up Alpha? - This question has been answered already. The answer is Yes.

4. Are we willing to wait 100 turns for Metal Casting? - This question is not relevant UNLESS we are willing to give up Alpha. That is why we MUST have a definitive vote on this issue before fighting about the 100 turns. We can discuss the 100 turn thing after and hopefully decide that without a poll. But we have to know whether we are even willing to give up Alpha first. Trying to discuss the 100 turn thing without a decision on whether we are willing to give up Alpha just over-complicates the issue.

5. Are Cavalieros willing to wait 100 turns for Metal Casting? - This question has been answered already. The answer is Yes.

 

[donsig]

By 'we' do you mean Team Kaz or Team Cav? We (Team Kaz) have not even offered alphabet to SANCTA so we have no idea if such a trade is possible. And if Team Cav makes the trade they must promise they will not build the Colossus and also that they will not trade metal casting away to anyone else until turn 100.

Sommerswerd after doing such a good job on poll mechanics in the past you've really slipped on this one. The poll question is quite misleading, their should be a summary of the options (as I posted above) and we should be able to bring the discussion here instead of clicking all over the place.

 

[Kaleb]

I'm not voting on this yet. I want to see if Cav are willing for us to do the Alpha-MC trade with Sancta instead of them

 

[donsig]

I'm not voting on this yet. I want to see if Cav are willing for us to do the Alpha-MC trade with Sancta instead of them

Team Cav has already said it is ok if we do the trade. We do not know if SANCTA will do the trade with us.

 

[Sommerswerd]

By 'we' do you mean Team Kaz or Team Cav? We (Team Kaz) have not even offered alphabet to SANCTA so we have no idea if such a trade is possible. And if Team Cav makes the trade they must promise they will not build the Colossus and also that they will not trade metal casting away to anyone else until turn 100.

Sommerswerd after doing such a good job on poll mechanics in the past you've really slipped on this one. The poll question is quite misleading, their should be a summary of the options (as I posted above) and we should be able to bring the discussion here instead of clicking all over the place.

Ouch Don... I think the poll is good. Here are the issues.

1. Are WE willing to give up Alpha? - This is the most important question, because if the answer is no, then the rest does not matter.
2. Are we willing to let Cavalieros to give up Alpha? - If WE are willing to give up Alpha, then surely we are willing to let Cavalieros to give it up. So this question seems redundant... it does not need to be polled. Also, Cavalieros is already operating under the assumption that we are NOT willing to let them trade away Alpha. That is the hold-up on the trade... that we have not decided whether we are willing to let SANCTA have Alpha at all.
3. Are Cavalieros willing to let us give up Alpha? - This question has been answered already. The answer is Yes.
4. Are we willing to wait 100 turns for Metal Casting? - This question is not relevant UNLESS we are willing to give up Alpha. That is why we MUST have a definitive vote on this issue before fighting about the 100 turns. We can discuss the 100 turn thing after and hopefully decide that without a poll. But we have to know whether we are even willing to give up Alpha first. Trying to discuss the 100 turn thing without a decision on whether we are willing to give up Alpha just over-complicates the issue.
5. Are Cavalieros willing to wait 100 turns for Metal Casting? - This question has been answered already. The answer is Yes.

I thought you and I already discussed this...See the discussion between you and I below.

OK so if this poll is even necessary, it seems like we should be asking if we are willing to let SANCTA have Alpha (at all) for Metal Casting, instead of whether we are willing to let Cavalieros give Alpha to them.

It seems like we are still divided on this... Are we?

Yes, I think we are still divided - but this trade does not seem to be a high priority for SANCTA anyway. Let's focus our attention on suggesting an alternative trade to SANCTA so we get metal casting sooner.

Have we sent a proposal to SANCTA yet? If not I would say we should probably poll the issue since there seems to be alot of reluctance to offer SANCTA Alpha, which is what they obviously want for Metal Casting.

I thought this made it clear that the issue we would poll was whether WE were willing to trade Alpha for Metal Casting. The other issues already seem either resolved or irrelevant until we can decide this one... right? That was part of the reason I tried to hold up the poll for so long... to try to resolve some of the issues without polling. I think you are being a little harsh Don. This is a solid poll.

Perhaps I should have put my discussion of the issues in the first page of the post. I will do that now, but I really think that folks are familiar with the issue. The poll is not meant to be deceptive. It is meant to be simple. It is meant to decide a very narrow issue. I do not want to bind our diplomacy with an overly broad, vague poll.

 

[donsig]

4. Are we willing to wait 100 turns for Metal Casting? - This question is not relevant UNLESS we are willing to give up Alpha. That is why we MUST have a definitive vote on this issue before fighting about the 100 turns. We can discuss the 100 turn thing after and hopefully decide that without a poll. But we have to know whether we are even willing to give up Alpha first. Trying to discuss the 100 turn thing without a decision on whether we are willing to give up Alpha just over-complicates the issue.
...
I think you are being a little harsh Don. This is a solid poll.

So,

1. If the result of our decision is we don't want to give up alphabet then it seems we'd either have to give up the trade idea or make an alternative offer to SANCTA.
2. If we do decide to give up alphabet then we have to decide if we want to wait till turn 100.

Either way we only make an incremental step towards reaching an actual decision about how and when we get metal casting. This is not a solid poll as it delays us reaching a decision on the matter. We have to wait on this poll then discuss some more then poll something else.