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Diplomacy with the Anarchos

Discussion in 'The Knights’ Brotherhood' started by Lanzelot, Feb 26, 2011.

  1. Lanzelot

    Lanzelot Moderator Moderator

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    Hmm, looks like the Diplomacy forum is visible for all, because I can see the "Civ3 ISDG - Eagles Diplomacy" forum as well!?! So I better start a thread here in our private forum.

    Anyway, here is our first message we got from the people of the Anarchos:

    Greetings, O noble Knights of the Brotherhood!

    We are delighted to establish contact between our civilizations.

    We are a small community of peaceful people believing in individual freedom and aspiring after trade, knowledge and wealth for all by free cooperation. Be assured that we foster no hostile feelings against our brothers and sisters on the golden continent.

    Hoping to inspire an atmosphere of trust and cooperation we'd like to give you some secret information about our people: some of us are adept scientific researchers while others excel at trade and commerce. Since we have no hostile intentions, our troops focus on defense. Some call our best defenders hoplites. We have recently discovered the wheel and bronze working and are currently investigating the extraction of a much harder metal called iron.

    Our prophets believe you are a very industrious and equally peaceful civilization of seafarers. They look forward to spending many hours exchanging knowledge with your wise ones and talking with them about freedom, philosophy and long-lasting peace.

    But time runs short. Aloha for now.

    A voice of the free people
     
  2. Lanzelot

    Lanzelot Moderator Moderator

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    Here is my first draft of our return message, please comment.


    Greetings to the free people of the Anarchists!
    We are equally delighted to meet friendly and peaceful neighbors, and we hope our two peoples can develop a long-lasting friendship and cooperation in trade and research. May both of us prosper and blossom in a peaceful coexistence and benefit from the other's findings and advances instead of fighting and destroying each other's fortune.

    We are a congregation of honorable knights whose quest it is to fight against injustice and the evil forces of this world and to lend our help and protection to the weak and oppressed. In the end we hope to find enlightenment in the Holy Grail. You have guessed correctly that we like to work hard (ora et labora) and that we like to explore the seas and find foreign shores. Like you, we have no aggressive intentions and focus on defense. Our best defender is called a mercenary.

    We see that we are slightly more numerous than you are, but we have rumors about two other nations across the great water, who are even more numerous than both of our peoples. In the light of this, it seems to make sense to get a good cooperation going, so that we will be able to keep pace with the other nations of this world.

    We see that we have some wisdom, that you don't know yet: Masonry(100) and the art of Writing(200). We see that both of these technologies are quite a bit more expensive than Bronze(75) and the Wheel(100), however, in order to start our new-found friendship in an atmosphere of trust, we offer a complete swap of these four techs and hope for a similarly generous deal from your side sometime in the future.

    Yours sincerely, Sir Lanzelot, spokesman of the Knights
     
  3. Memento

    Memento The World is mine

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    This is better:

    We see that we have some wisdom, that you don't know yet: Masonry(100) and the art of Writing(200). We see that both of these technologies are quite a bit more expensive than the Wheel(100) and IronWorking(175).
     
  4. templar_x

    templar_x usually walks his talks

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    :yup:

    aside from that Masonry (100) is not more expensive than The Wheel (100).

    templar_x
     
  5. I. Larkin

    I. Larkin Deity

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    As far as I remember IW equal Philosophy. =>IW=150. Let's try Writing for BW+TW. If they really want to trade and their mail is not trial balloon we may open more, like we have both, CoL + Phylo and want to research Republic. => We want long term research plan (Math+MMking for something...)
     
  6. I. Larkin

    I. Larkin Deity

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    We see that we have some wisdom, that you don't know yet: Masonry(100) and the art of Writing(200). We see that both of these technologies are quite a bit more expensive than Bronze(75) and the Wheel(100), however, in order to start our new-found friendship in an atmosphere of trust, we offer a Writing for BW and TW, also we may offer Masonry for discount gpt price (3 gpt, say). We hope for a similarly generous deal from your side sometime in the future.
    We may send this text by E-mail, if reply will be not fast offer in game (send) Writing. Set research for zero and wait for result.
    I think Curragh may go north-west now and we may not build new ships in near future.
     
  7. Memento

    Memento The World is mine

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    I dont like this.

    They are backwards and this is good.
    I think we meet other Teams earlier than they. So we have more options to trade.
    So i see no essential to give them more than it needs.
    300 to 275 is very friendly.
    After Writing-IW we can see further.
     
  8. I. Larkin

    I. Larkin Deity

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    This is not good. We are third in population and Eagles has 4 turner.
    We need MM soon to deal with that somehow. We have to make good joined research plan.
    OK, we may offer Mas for BW and Wri for IW, whatever they agree.
    But I like my plan more.
     
  9. Lanzelot

    Lanzelot Moderator Moderator

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    Yes, Iron Working is 150. Just open my Sandkasten in CivAssist, then you can see the tech costs, it has the same parameters.

    Ok, Writing for BW+TW sounds good, I can offer that as a "first shot" and also the deal Masonry for gpt (or another first tier tech). Then see what they respond.

    If the Eagles really have a 4-turner, then we need a "strong partner" to counter that... It doesn't help, if the Arnarchos stay backward and we have to slow down, waiting for their techs in a possible joint research plan.
     
  10. Memento

    Memento The World is mine

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    Sry, this shot was to early Ulrich. :(
    Where do u see a majority for this offer?
    300 for 175+60g is not friendly. This is almost submissive.

    The Kitchen can be another partner if we meet them.
     
  11. templar_x

    templar_x usually walks his talks

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    I find your text absolutely ok, Lanzelot. It keeps a lot of options open. I especially like the 2 options you suggested for a Masonry trade.

    @ Memento - I believe there was kind of a majority. Ivan suggested this deal, Lanzelot was pro, and I did not openly support it yet but I am actually pro also.

    I am eager to learn what they answer. This will be telling a whole story. If they do not want to trade, they either want war or they expect to be better off once they meet everyone.

    templar_x
     
  12. I. Larkin

    I. Larkin Deity

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    Our aim is to get Republic ASAP, this trade will help us. I offered maximal reasonable discount that they find this offer attractive.
    Actually we may in a future trade their free MA tech with "discount for us". I think we may use it in negotiations.
    However, we have to decide: are we going to make joined research plan until their MA, or we just get a Republic and expand on entire continent and drive them to the sea.
     
  13. Memento

    Memento The World is mine

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    its wrong ,because we need only 3 turns to BW.

    300 for 150+60g is correct.

    What will u trade next?
    Philo for IW
    CoL for MM


    CB(50?),WC(75), HR (125?), Poly (300),Curreny (400), Construction(500) and Rep(700) left
    freetech are 800 or 900

    I'm eager as you want to get the freetech.if you give them now a present of 90.

    And i think they have WC now.
     
  14. Memento

    Memento The World is mine

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    Hmm, u posted 2times for the other proposal.
    If u actually pro this deal ok, but at Lanzelots post there were only 2 members for this deal.
    and that was no majority.
     
  15. templar_x

    templar_x usually walks his talks

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    that appears to be a contradiction, Memento, but it is not.

    What I want is try to find a deal that a) is not exceptionally bad for us b) gets us military techs and thus c) shows us how they really stand towards us, aside uttering friendly words.
    So, I could have imagined another deal as well, but this one is good also.

    Technically you are right, there was no majority at this time. We should try not to have that happen. But in this case, I would have given my ok, so by its content the proposal had a majority.

    templar_x
     
  16. Lanzelot

    Lanzelot Moderator Moderator

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    Well, I had already read templar's response in such a way that he also supports trades like this in general. (After playing a duel and exchanging hundreds of mails with him, I know a bit, how he thinks... ;)) So I assumed already 3 votes in favor and wanted to get a response from them, before we have to move. (If they don't respond by this afternoon, early evening, I'll send Writing and turn research to 0% for the moment, as Ivan suggested. But having a response, before making further decisions, would be very good.)

    And there's one more point: if they are really as backwards, as it appears at the moment, we need to strengthen them. But we should do this in such a way that they feel treated as "equal partners", not by making too obvious gifts that will make them feel like "junior partners". Writing for BW+TW looks like a 25g discount (they don't know we have started BW already), which is compensated by the fact that we get two military techs for a basically "useless" tech. Masonry for 3gpt is a 40g discount (actually less, as the price for them dropped, now that they met us), but it's still not that great a deal for them: giving gpt always means, that you fall further behind, while the other side's research is even sped up more...!
    In any case, deals like this may still appear as "fair", while giving us an "inconspicuous" way of beefing them up.
     
  17. Memento

    Memento The World is mine

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    the price for there techs droppes too.
    if we meet other teams the price of anarchos techs dropped again.ur not.because probably we meet other civs earlier.
    at this time we push them and i´m not sure that they would give us their freetech.


    if we offered the other deal and they say yes ok.then we could be a little bit generous.
     
  18. Memento

    Memento The World is mine

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    actually techcost for us (last Round)

    bw 44 (75)
    wc 75 (75)
    tw 88 (100)
    cb 50 (50)
    Math 200(200)

    ok, they have no WC
    its possible they already have IW?
     
  19. templar_x

    templar_x usually walks his talks

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    do ships count for military strength?

    i wondered what they did with their start. i understand all of us believe the starts were more or less equally strong. so why are we bigger, have more units, more techs... you know what i mean?

    in case ships do not count towards your military,they could have built 2 or 3 curraghs very fast, so to meet everyone else soonest possible.

    only other explanation i could come up with is that they have 2 settlers on their way?

    templar_x
     
  20. Memento

    Memento The World is mine

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    I don´t think so.
    they are not seafaring-->no town at coast?-->only 2 moves per turn
     

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