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Diplomacy with the Anarchos

Discussion in 'The Knights’ Brotherhood' started by Lanzelot, Feb 26, 2011.

  1. I. Larkin

    I. Larkin Deity

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    Two reason for that:
    1) I did not understand "rule". Looks that in Worf interpretation after culture expansion, say, Anarhos can send our troops at any point of continent they want
    2) Rude manner of Worf, all texts in German, no discussion with second referee and other team leaders.
    I think we must submit official protest.
     
  2. Memento

    Memento The World is mine

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    sure, but why not?
    the others guys from anarchos don´t stop d7. it´s not my task to live in peace with a mentally deranged person.
    in the beginning of the dg I begged him "Make no diplo, its better for all"
    he would not listen, why should I take more considerate?
     
  3. templar_x

    templar_x usually walks his talks

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    as i am addressed here personally, i reply without the lurkers brackets:

    What Memento said is absolutely correct. I told you, Lanzelot, long ago that you as a historically interested person should be aware that appeasement never works versus the psychopaths and the aggressors.
    However, the funny thing is that you constantly overlook, that d7 does *not* stop his diplo when you turn more aggressive. in fact, the one and only useful deal this team got from the Anarchie in the whole game happened after we had threatened them.

    your role, your idea about team play and diplomacy is indeed perceived *very differently* at least by me than you describe it yourself.

    templar_x
     
  4. Lanzelot

    Lanzelot Moderator Moderator

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    I agree that some things were not quite fair towards us in all this lately. (Especially that a rule clarification that prevented us from playing our turn for 24h (I can only play in the evenings atm) now is supposed to be subtracted from our turn clock.) But I think it's not worth wasting any more time on it. Let's just play on.
     
  5. Lanzelot

    Lanzelot Moderator Moderator

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    Ok excellent. That explains it. Now I can put my mind at rest and sleep easy again. :goodjob:
     
  6. Lanzelot

    Lanzelot Moderator Moderator

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    What does that have to do with "appeasement"?? I'm not doing appeasement. All I'm asking for is to stay polite/courteous, act like adults (even in the face of insults) and not lower ourselves to the same level by participating in their mud-slinging. Appeasement is quite different. (Surely you know what appeasement is. It is giving in to all and every demand. And I never proposed that we should do this. We can always say "no" to something, but it doesn't hurt to say it in a polite way.)
    Just take a look at how Churchill conducted the negotiations with Stalin during 1942-45. Would you say that Churchill practised "appeasement" here? I would say no. Many times the Russian side came with impertinent demands and even insults. But Churchill remained calm, treated Stalin with respect and most of the time he got what he wanted in the end. I think Churchill demonstrated an examplary masterpiece of how to make successful diplomacy with a madman. Unfortunately we conducted our diplomacy in quite the opposite way. (We acted like madmen ourselves.)

    This is wrong. Quite the opposite is true: we got the Mathematics deal during a time, when there was no mud-slinging and accusations going on, and when Ivan negotiated very calmly and factually with Loki. In the periods before and afterwards, when there again was cat-fighting and personal battles between individual team members going on, we got no deals from them. See? The plain facts proove that I'm right and you are wrong... ;)
     
  7. templar_x

    templar_x usually walks his talks

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    It is useless to say that I disagree wholeheartedly. Rather I find the interpretation of those "facts" on the line with what Ivan described as "arguing why black is in fact white".

    And Maths was definitely not that great deal to "prove" anything, except that they now have the money and you do not. This might not exactly match your other preparations, but I do not know. Anyway, as an argument it is void.

    Whatever Churchill did to Stalin, does not matter. What you wanted the team to do with d7 and did when you were the diplomat is 100% appeasement policy. You wanted us to take the worse deals, to donate them land and techs, to accept their behaviour and that they exchange peanuts while we gift them the strategic advantages. We had long talks and quarrels about this, so it is strange enough that you now refer to a maths deal when I did not even take part in the discussion any more. Back then you defended those proposals "because we will play better and get everything back as it happens in your games", now you claim you did not recommend us that strategy?!?!?? :confused::crazyeye:

    but is has become an ugly baby, so it would only be consequent, and finally here someone could realize how bad this is developing.

    templar_x
     
  8. I. Larkin

    I. Larkin Deity

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    Ok, this was minor, but in a future we may have BIG question. I thought word "path" clear enough but looks that Worf has another opinion. Also, I thought that part of rule "in brackets" has secondary role/meaning. Again, Worf thought differently. At the same time there is no mechanism that permits us to argue, because we can ran out of time if next issue will come out.
    Lanzelot, please, prepare a "draft of protest", you know better how discussion went on and have better feeling about equivalence German and English text.
     
  9. Lanzelot

    Lanzelot Moderator Moderator

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    Would this here already qualify as the kind of "protest" you have in mind?

    English Translation:
     
  10. I. Larkin

    I. Larkin Deity

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    Yes, something like that. In addition mechanism of discussion of "unclear wording" must be introduced somehow.
     
  11. Memento

    Memento The World is mine

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    will anyone really trade or cooperate with anarchos again?

    @larkin
    what you want with these letters?
     
  12. I. Larkin

    I. Larkin Deity

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    Will see. If we manage to trade HBR why not?
    2)If we go to TGLib better stay in peace. Also, stay in touch with normal person may be useful to know what they up to.
     
  13. Memento

    Memento The World is mine

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    I wonder a little bit.
    If we build TGLib, we don´t need HBR from anarchos.

    If u will stay in peace, we can´t pillage the roads and we can´t settle by tobacco.
    And then we build the TGLib and they backwards again and they have only one chance->war with us.
     
  14. I. Larkin

    I. Larkin Deity

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    If we postpone HBR after TGL ibit is too risky to build many chariots. My feeling is "yes, they prepare to war with us". Very probably it is "deal with Eagles". However, I am not going to fight for peace no matter what. Oppositely, without any insults in diplomacy room I think we must pillage Horses, and settle on Tobacco. My worry is that it will be hard to defend this land with the troops we have.
     
  15. Memento

    Memento The World is mine

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    We can research HBR after Currency with minimum.

    thats a way to give us safety that anarchos don´t break the nap and we can take lux to 0% and save money. In return, we do not pillage the horses
     
  16. I. Larkin

    I. Larkin Deity

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    In return of what? I think we must demonstrate how stupid was to send us North.
     
  17. Memento

    Memento The World is mine

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    in return of a lux trade, but i think the time is to short

    i think if we will trade lux = no pillage

    but i think too, we must be consistently and pillage
     
  18. templar_x

    templar_x usually walks his talks

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    lurker's comment: with a brief look into the save, some distance to the nonsense d7 usually talks and a spare second i had a little thought about the diplo which was re-established by Ivan.

    just from a diplo side of view, this could be a moment for a strong offer towards the Anarchie: like, to GIFT them Republic* for a "normal alliance", pointing out that everything that you abstained from that because the other proposals were just way off in your eyes.
    maybe that would hit them in the mood where they want to change their minds. and they may fear that you otherwise destroy their road. (of course you should, they proved that they do not understand into which trouble d7 drives them otherwise. you should even stress that fact.)
    advantage: both your countries are building big armies, the others think you are going to fight with each other -> you can easily make some gains with a joint attack.

    *as Ivan counted, absolutely correctly in my eyes, there is not much difference to the original deal here.

    but having another look on the shape of this world, i think you need to take over the continent. you see, their position is so much closer and thus stronger to the other continent! if the two of you manage to take over the other continent, they will be in a so much greater position!
    advantage: no Anarchos, no d7

    templar_x
     
  19. templar_x

    templar_x usually walks his talks

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    lurker's comment:
    d7s newest post:
    maybe you want to reply, that this may sound like a dilemma, but it is actually misperception, or even deception from his side: you do have warriors in the area, while the Anarchie mustered swords, horses, and hoplites. only one of those groups can be used militarily.

    @ Ivan - thanks for finally applying a diplo where things are said as they are! :goodjob:
     
  20. I. Larkin

    I. Larkin Deity

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    I am not going to discuss/reply to d7. It will save time/efforts.
     

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