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Diplomacy with the Deutsche Küche

Discussion in 'The Knights’ Brotherhood' started by Lanzelot, May 2, 2011.

  1. Lanzelot

    Lanzelot Moderator Moderator

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    I was willing to "swallow" the Anarcho's insults, because I wanted to "use" them as an ally for our purpose. But I don't need to "swallow" insults from a team mate. Perhaps sometimes you don't realize when you say something that makes other people upset?! (I noticed the same in the Asterix game, where some of your harsh comments towards splunge_the_2nd were "borderline"... I knew you didn't mean them that way and were only trying to teach him something, and fortunately splunge took them the same way and wasn't offended, but in an international forum with people you don't know, I would be more careful. It sounded like you were treating splunge like a "kleines Dummerchen", while in fact he is not stupid: he is only playing not as good as we are, because of lack of experience and lack of knowledge, but he was learning fast and made good improvements in the course of that training game. No reason to treat him like an idiot...)
    So anyway, I considered this as an insult:

    This will never happen. justanick knows perfectly well, that if we get eliminated, then Küche will have absolutely no chance against the Eagles. So he will keep the alliance until the Eagles are eliminated and then hopes to be stronger than us in the endgame. Similarly the Eagles view the Küche as the more dangerous threat, because we have already "wasted" our GA, while the Küche can still have it at a decisive point.

    This is completely true. Ivan, if we want to win that game, we still need a strong ally. Don't push justanick away by beginning to "play tricks" and holding back or appearing "dishonest". The Küche helped us with all they got, when we were nearly dying, don't forget that. If they would have kept the 3-way alliance against us going, we would now be dead instead of the Anarchos... (BTW, templar: of course I know why they helped us. a) the know perfectly well, that they need an ally in order to survive the overwhelming strength of the Eagles and b) they liked us more than the Anarchos... ;) and c) I tried my best to do an open and honest diplomacy with them and regain the lost trust.)
    So anyway: how much gold did you send them last turn? How much can you send this turn? At least for the next turns we must make a very strong impression and be a reliable ally!! Don't forget we still want Metallurgy and MT... (And besides, I think it is in our best interest to cooperate with them as good as we can, until the Eagles are eliminated. I think I don't need to remind you that the Eagles have 6 fully developed size-12 cities in Golden Age! It will be a very tough fight, even if we cooperate perfectly with the Küche... )

    I will now update our Konto thread and check justanick's calculation.

    What do you mean by this?
     
  2. templar_x

    templar_x usually walks his talks

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    please expect no apologies, Lanzelot, even after 2 days this is the most charming thing i could say about what you wrote... really.

    if i was unfair with splunge, i would be sorry, but do not believe that you are right. sometimes, when i am in a hurry (and most of the time i am), i write brief and sharp. i felt he took that as a way of expression, not an insult, and it was never meant. anyway, i took my time when i do not have any, and he improved a lot during that game due to your and my advice, so i really really think that there was absolutely nothing going wrong there.

    t_x
     
  3. Lanzelot

    Lanzelot Moderator Moderator

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    Why is this bs?!? I think it is very fair!! He is applying the same multipliers to the Küche techs as well! 6/7, when researching a tech that is known to 1 out of 4, 17/21 when researching a tech that is known to 1 out of 3 (after elimination of Anarchos). So basically he is calculating what it would have cost us to research our techs and what it cost them to research their techs. Then he is dividing that by two and distributing it evenly among us.
    So basically we are paying:
    493g for Gunpowder
    600g for Chemistry
    640g for Metallurgy
    680g for MT

    They are paying us:
    357g and 392,5g for Theo and Education.

    I think these prices are fair. (There is only one mistake, which I will correct: we got Invention from the GLib...)

    So once we got Metallurgy and MT, we owe them a total of 1217g. Obviously we can't pay all that until T137, but we should at least try and give them a decent amount in the next 5 turns.
     
  4. templar_x

    templar_x usually walks his talks

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    IF he applied the 6/7, then everything is ok. he did not write that while he pointed out the 5/7, and i had no time to check even a single number...

    t_x
     
  5. Lanzelot

    Lanzelot Moderator Moderator

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    We need to put our research agreement with the Küche on a "solid foundation" that can be signed as a contract. We can't afford "misunderstandings" to get into the way, and also it will protect us during the time when we can't do our own research yet. Things like Astronomy etc will still be very valuable for us.

     
  6. Lanzelot

    Lanzelot Moderator Moderator

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    Please take a look at the discussion with the Küche, it is becoming quite critical now: the attack-roads of the Eagles will finish next turn (after T135), so they might attack with Cavs in T136.

    Also what is your opinion about signing a research deal like the one above, and perhaps even a military contract for our war against the Eagles. (If the Eagles attack on our continent first, we might suffer some damage as well... so an agreement to help each other with the "reconstruction after the war" would be a good life ensurance.)
     
  7. I. Larkin

    I. Larkin Deity

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    Lets make RoP, but not MA. we can do it later.
     
  8. templar_x

    templar_x usually walks his talks

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    but the MA allows to give the Eagles WH only o n c e. i think that is what it is good for.
    t_x
     
  9. I. Larkin

    I. Larkin Deity

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    But if Eagles declare and we come to MA they will not have WH at all.
     
  10. Lanzelot

    Lanzelot Moderator Moderator

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    No, they will get zero WH, even if we attack...
     
  11. templar_x

    templar_x usually walks his talks

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    it depends on who attacks. if Küche takes those workers, which was a plan at some stage, of course they would get WH once. or why not?
    t_x
     
  12. Lanzelot

    Lanzelot Moderator Moderator

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    Yes, if Küche would attack without signing an MA first, the Eagles would get WH.
     
  13. templar_x

    templar_x usually walks his talks

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    is that somehow special in PBEMs? because in a single game this would not work that way, afaik. there always one party already has to be at war in order to be able to sign a MA against the enemy. and this seems to hold true for AI-AI-alliances also.

    t_x
     
  14. I. Larkin

    I. Larkin Deity

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    In PBEM two may attack with MA without war, but I think single WH will take place.
     
  15. templar_x

    templar_x usually walks his talks

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    alright. i did not know that.
    t_x
     
  16. Lanzelot

    Lanzelot Moderator Moderator

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    I tested it 1-2 years ago: zero WH!
     
  17. I. Larkin

    I. Larkin Deity

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    OK, I see. So what a plan? Kuche will attack first and pillage road? and what then?
    We will try to take Village... What to do with our ships? How defend coastal line?
     
  18. Lanzelot

    Lanzelot Moderator Moderator

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    Everything still unclear. But in any case, we should stay "flexible". For now just sign the RoP this turn, and then wait and see, how the Eagles react to justanick's cancellation of the lux deal... :D
    And perhaps justanick's assumption is correct and the Eagles are indeed preparing an attack the next 1-2 turns. Then we don't have to declare ourselves.

    In any case I think the first phase of the war will be marked by passive defense. We (Küche + Knights) are not strong enough for a successful offense, so we "let the Eagles come and try to give them a bloody nose".
    Once the Küche's GA kicks in and the Eagle's GA expires, we should be able to go over to offense. One strategy I have been thinking about: first our "expeditionary corps" should help the Küche to hold their front and inflict as many losses as possible to the Eagle's Cav forces. Also we need a few units to take The Village in the first few turns. (Perhaps already now concentrate our 2-3 Knights we currently have in the north more closely to the center?!) Meanwhile we prepare a second large army, which we will use at a later point of the war for a surprise landing in their north (while their forces are down at the Küche border engaged in fighting...)
     
  19. templar_x

    templar_x usually walks his talks

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    if the Küche successfully goes into the offense, you should better use the time to build real cities out of the pitiful villages that you now have. wasting shields and gold and time for a landing in the north is a very bad idea, and even more so against an enemy with dromons...
    t_x
     
  20. Lanzelot

    Lanzelot Moderator Moderator

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    It depends on the circumstances. If the southern front is locked in stalemate and the Eagles have all their units down there (remember Memento-Calis?), then such an operation may be quite deadly. Of course we'll need to find out, whether they have a large fleet up there (but we need only one turn on water!).
    And yes, our cities should be size 12 by the time we can think about such an operation. That should be the priority for the next 15 turns.

    Embassy established.
     

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