[GS] Diplomatic favors trade might be a problem for the diplomatic victory

[leandrombraz]

Considering that they don't want diplomatic victory to be about gold like in Civ V but about actual diplomatic actions, trade of favors might become a problem if they don't limit it somehow. What will stop us from focusing on gold, then buy tons of favors from the AI, leaving them without favors while we have plenty? What will stop us from cheesing the diplomatic victory and even the whole world congress using gold by just buying tons of favors before votes?

Favors can't be too expensive, otherwise we can do the opposite and bankrupt the AI selling favors. One thing Firaxis can do is limit how much the AI is wiling to sell/buy, the AI need to understand the value of favors, be unwilling to sell us too much and unwilling to expend too much in favors so we can't manipulate it too much. Even better, the AI could plan ahead and know that they need X favors to pass whatever vote they want to pass in the congress, so they don't sell it in the same way they never sell their single copy of luxury resources. Firaxis could also establish a hard limit, like you can't buy more than 10 favors per turn.

Anyway, the way they are doing diplomatic victory is exactly what I wanted it to be, it's like Firaxis read my mind, so I really want it to ultimately be about diplomatic actions, if you play the diplomatic games right, you gonna dominate the congress, if not there's no way to cheese it. I really hope Firaxis succeed and it won't be about gold. I also hope warmongers will have a hard time gathering favors, unless they manage to somehow play the diplomatic game while they conquer left and right.

 

[bbbt]

I didnt get the idea you get diplomatic favor with gold - my understanding is that you essentially get some sort of ''diplomacy points" (yet another bucket!) From things like being a suzerain of a CS and winning various international projects, and you use that to 'vote' in the world Congress and the like.

 

[Hakan-i Cihan]

If done right it should not be possible to buy favour with gold to an abusable degree. Trading favour should focus more on other diplomatic features. If it would be possible to buy favour with gold it should have a hard limit for acquiring total favour per turn.

 

[leandrombraz]

I didnt get the idea you get diplomatic favor with gold - my understanding is that you essentially get some sort of ''diplomacy points" (yet another bucket!) From things like being a suzerain of a CS and winning various international projects, and you use that to 'vote' in the world Congress and the like.

That's how you get it but you can trade this points (favors) with other leaders, so you can use it to buy luxury and strategic resources, great works or just trade it for gold. So theoretically and based on the little we know, it should be possible to build up a health economy then use your gold to buy favors from other leaders, assuming Firaxis didn't do something to prevent that kind of shenanigan, like "teach" the AI the value of favors or just limit how much favors can be traded.

 

[Zigzagzigal]

One advantage to this system over Civ 5's city-state bribing is that you are handing money to a competitor, rather than essentially taking it out the game. That means that if favours have a reasonably high cost, putting yourself ahead in the diplomatic game will mean putting your competitors ahead in different ways. This can be a good way to incentivise a balance of power in the game, as you'll prefer to provide funds to weaker civs.

Of course, a civ close to diplomatic victory shouldn't sell favours, and other civs shouldn't sell more to them. The weights mentioned in the original post seem to make sense.

 

[Siptah]

It also depends on the worth of a favor. Is a favor enough to let a civ vote for you? Or does it take 20 favors per civ in the late game to buy a vote? And maybe favorable terms anyway - otherwise the favors will just be lost or not strong enough?

 

[Victoria]

It is not just about buying favor, it is also sending 'relief' whether it be from flood or famine.
It does seem to come down to gold for either though. Perhaps it could be considered a merchant or trading victory also.
I'm sure ideology will be a contributing factor.
Also when 5 civs want the favour it could be pricey.
What concerns me is the current trading game has no relevance on the mood of the civ in question unless denounced. Lets hope that has changed.

Bottom line is it comes down to the big country rather than the small and this version has no ICS limitation while in reality large nations collapse.
Sure it's just a game but the bottom line of this game is big is best.
They are now just providing another way for a big civ to win.

I would love it if, for every CS that was taken there was a greater chance of large civs furthest large cities have a chance of breaking away and replacing the CS.

 

[TomKQT]

I think it's too early to start worrying about such specific problems in a system that has been explained so briefly so far.

 

[Lord Lakely]

Exactly we don't know how Favours work, thought it's probably similar to Diplomatic Capital in BE. I'd recon you gain them by honouring agreements, joining wars, keeping promises and voting for certain WC resolutions. Not by like... buying them with gold, lol.

Their role in diplo victory *I GUESS* is to stop the AI from abstaining whenever the World Leader Vote happens. I do think the World Leader Vote should take other modifers into account as well, such as "Is An Ally", "Prevents My Worst Enemy From Winning" or "Satisfies Historical Agenda".

 

[Inhalaattori]

Fortunately diplomatic victory works different from the way it worked in CIV V. You have to win the vote multiple times. They are still working with the details, but its already certain that you have to win the vote several times.

PCGN: You mentioned the new diplomatic victory – how has that changed?

Beach: Through the modern era and beyond, in most sessions of the World Congress there will be a resolution to see whether someone gets points towards a diplomatic victory. That’s something we’re balancing right now: how many times you need to win that vote. We’re trying to make sure that all the different victories are roughly equal in difficulty. But you won’t be able to just win that vote once and claim the diplomatic victory – you’ll have to show diplomatic leadership over several eras of the game, and win that vote multiple times, in order to achieve the diplomatic victory.

Source:
https://www.pcgamesn.com/civilization-vi/civ-6-gathering-storm-natural-disasters

 

[Trav'ling Canuck]

Fortunately diplomatic victory works different from the way it worked in CIV V. You have to win the vote multiple times. They are still working with the details, but its already certain that you have to win the vote several times.

In practice, that was usually true in Civ 5, too. Each time you received one of the top two votes without a majority, you received additional votes for future World Congresses. Eventually you built up enough to win outright. At higher difficulty levels, it was challenging to have enough votes to win the early elections outright, so had to go through one or two rounds.

Sounds like the development team is now making that the default, i.e. taking out the ability to claim victory early when you already have victory sewn up. In which case they may simply be extending the number of times you have to hit "End Turn" before seeing the victory screen.

We'll have to wait and see. There's too much we still don't know.

 

[Bliss]

Aaaaand honorable mentions to the OP who was right all along. Get a horsehocky ton of gold by selling strategic and excessive luxuries; make sure you buy a stack of favor now and then from civs that have too much accumulated; spend lots of votes on whatever decision you want; repeat every 20 turns;

p r o f i t.

I don't find it bad, though. If the AI is minding his own business and letting you sit on such a huge stack of gold, it was its fault anyways. Diplomacy is money in real life as well.

 

[Pietato]

Aaaaand honorable mentions to the OP who was right all along. Get a **** ton of gold by selling strategic and excessive luxuries; make sure you buy a stack of favor now and then from civs that have too much accumulated; spend lots of votes on whatever decision you want; repeat every 20 turns;

p r o f i t.

I don't find it bad, though. If the AI is minding his own business and letting you sit on such a huge stack of gold, it was its fault anyways. Diplomacy is money in real life as well.

This does not actually work. They wil still easily overwhelm you with numbers, while you go broke. Eventually they will stop selling you favour as well.

 

[Bliss]

This does not actually work. They wil still easily overwhelm you with numbers, while you go broke. Eventually they will stop selling you favour as well.

When is it supposed to stop?
Right now I'm at 1510 AD and AI is selling me their favors as crazy. I just buy 20 favor for 220 gold every turn from every AI.

 

[leandrombraz]

When is it supposed to stop?
Right now I'm at 1510 AD and AI is selling me their favors as crazy. I just buy 20 favor for 220 gold every turn from every AI.

Eventually they will stop selling it to you. I'm not sure if it's triggered by how much favors you have but at some point you will get that red exclamation mark that prevents trading.

 

[Bliss]

Eventually they will stop selling it to you. I'm not sure if it's triggered by how much favors you have but at some point you will get that red exclamation mark that prevents trading.

It already shows up but only if I try to trade more than 20 per turn. Maybe you tried to get more than it?

 

[leandrombraz]

It already shows up but only if I try to trade more than 20 per turn. Maybe you tried to get more than it?

Initially it's more than 20 but eventually the AI won't trade even a single favor with you.