Diplomatic Victory Elimination Thread

[TeddyMain]

21. Kristina/Sweden [47] I agree with the above poster, but Kristina does get bonuses to Great Engineer and Scientist points. Just wanted to make that correction.
25. Matthias Corvinus/Hungary [47] [50-3] I feel like people are overrating envoy production: envoys don't produce favor, suzerainty does, and diplo favor from suzerainty is very map dependent. Their ability is much less relevant the smaller the map. Kristina and Teddy don't have to worry about this issue.
40. Tamar/Georgia [7]
41. Teddy Roosevelt/America [52] [51+1] Basically what most people are saying now, Kristina is more likely to steer towards a cultural victory rather than a diplo victory, which isn't really the case for Teddy. With that in mind, I believe Teddy could pull it off as number 1.

 

[bengalryan9]

Canada top 5 over Greece, take that haters! Had no business being beat by Georgia, but whatever. These last four should be pretty easy to sort out.

21. Kristina/Sweden [47]
25. Matthias Corvinus/Hungary [47]
40. Tamar/Georgia [4] (7-3) See below.
41. Teddy Roosevelt/America [52] 53 (52+1) See below.

I feel like people are overrating envoy production: envoys don't produce favor, suzerainty does, and diplo favor from suzerainty is very map dependent. Their ability is much less relevant the smaller the map. Kristina and Teddy don't have to worry about this issue.

I've been saying this for weeks - it's kind of amazing how much people are overrating envoys which *might* get you extra favor (Tamar) compared to direct favor bonuses that you will always get (Wilfrid x2). Matthias is good, but he'd be lucky to sniff the amount of favor Teddy or Kristina will get as the game progresses.

 

[leandrombraz]

21. Kristina/Sweden [48] (47+1)
25. Matthias Corvinus/Hungary [47]
40. Tamar/Georgia [1] (4-3)
41. Teddy Roosevelt/America [53]

30. Pericles/Greece [Eliminated]

 

[kryat]

21. Kristina/Sweden [49] (48+1)
25. Matthias Corvinus/Hungary [47]
40. Tamar/Georgia [Eliminated] (1-3)
41. Teddy Roosevelt/America [53]

Georgia ending precisely where she should. She really is excellent at maintaining suzerain status, and would be best if not for these 3 remaining.

 

[Weraptor]

21. Kristina/Sweden [50] (49+1) Excellent DF generation.
25. Matthias Corvinus/Hungary [44] (47-3) No direct DF generation.
41. Teddy Roosevelt/America [53]

 

[KnightModern]

21. Kristina/Sweden [50]
25. Matthias Corvinus/Hungary [41] (44-3) no direct DV point generation
41. Teddy Roosevelt/America [54] (54+1) have direct DV point generation

 

[Pietato]

Kristina, however is dependent on Great Person generation and it should be reminded that she has no bonuses towards generating GP. .

21. Kristina/Sweden [50]
25. Matthias Corvinus/Hungary [42] As the game progresses, he will gain suzerainty over more and more CSes, generating an increasing amount of not only DF (which Országház will make even better), but all yields and suzerain bonuses.. Can also easily respond across the map, and has a super powerful allied unit.
41. Teddy Roosevelt/America [51] Great on smaller maps due to relatively passive DF generation, but does nothing else.

 

[Victoria]

21. Kristina/Sweden [51] (50+1)great great person generation from universities factories and the bibliotheque, and favour for each... is just frightening because oracle pumps this so powerfully with Pingala. Then the favour just pours in, you do not need CS for this. Pure goddess of favour.
25. Matthias Corvinus/Hungary [42]
41. Teddy Roosevelt/America [48] (51-3) how in gods name did teddy oust Pericles? +3/4 favour per turn as opposed to pericles CS+wonder favour generation. Bad enough it’s turned into a peaceful vote but a mathematical weirdness one. Travesty .. higher that Matthias I think not either.

 

[Kwami]

21. Kristina/Sweden [51]
25. Matthias Corvinus/Hungary [39] (42 - 3) No direct DF generation.
41. Teddy Roosevelt/America [49] (48 + 1) One of the two best for DF generation.

 

[lotrmith]

21. Kristina/Sweden [51] As the map gets smaller, Kristina has less competition for GPP. Could potentially gain GP every couple turns, skyrocketing her DF generation.

25. Matthias Corvinus/Hungary [40] 39 + 1 Anyone who doesn't think the on-demand ability to outright buy envoys is a powerful and direct generation of DF is in denial. As the map size grows, so too does his ability to increase number of suzerains, and successfully respond to emergencies, skyrocketing his DF generation. Also, by maximizing suzerainty, this bonus not only has the greatest DF generation potential, but also actively takes away DF generation opportunities from rivals.

41. Teddy Roosevelt/America [46] 49 - 3 This boring DF ability is the only one left that is actually hard capped per era, regardless of map size. And on smaller maps, as some are advocating, the DF is less important because there's less competition in votes and the votes are easier to guess with fewer participants.

 

[Leucarum]

21. Kristina/Sweden [52] (51+1)
25. Matthias Corvinus/Hungary [40]
41. Teddy Roosevelt/America [43] (46-3)

Kristina easily has the best DF production in the game. If you don't want to priritize a culture route with her you can always go for scientists/engineers... And it's far more entertaining than Teddy

 

[bengalryan9]

21. Kristina/Sweden [52]
25. Matthias Corvinus/Hungary [37] (40-3) "In denial"? Dude, he's in the top 3. While being able to buy extra envoys is awesome, you do have to become suzerain of the city state first. City states *will* die - many before you even meet them on higher difficulty levels - and while you can indeed go to war to keep them alive that's not always easy or practical even with his bonuses to levying. Even if you're doing well, spies can reek havoc on this bonus... the AI might not bother to do it, but I sure would.
41. Teddy Roosevelt/America [44] (43+1) Teddy (and Kristina) do not care what is going on with all of the city states in the world. Teddy (and Kristina) bring in the extra favor that everyone else wishes they could get with their bonus envoys. There is nothing you can do so slow down the extra favor that Teddy brings in outside of wiping him completely off the map... and he even gets a combat bonus to make doing that harder.

I see we've gotten to the point where people who don't vote complain about the results. What does that remind me of?

 

[enKage]

21. Kristina/Sweden [52]
25. Matthias Corvinus/Hungary [38] 37+1 If Georgia could do top4 with no bonus culture, no bonus gold, no direct DF generation and the worst possible start to secure a religion, then Matthias deserves to win, just because playing Hungary is the most fun here.
41. Teddy Roosevelt/America [41] 44-3 The most boring among the three


OMG just realised firdst time ever I agreed with lotrmith

 

[Kmart_Elvis]

21. Kristina/Sweden [52]
25. Matthias Corvinus/Hungary [35] (38-3) Dependence on city states to generate DF will always pale direct DF generation itself which Kristina and Teddy offer.
41. Teddy Roosevelt/America [42] (41+1) I agree that this Ability is boring, but disagree that it's weaker than Matt's for DF generation. By end game, with level 4 govt and wonders, you can be generating 10 DF/turn from America's ability alone. That's straight up free DF, on top of what you usually earn from suzerainity and competitions, etc.

Either way this is a great top 3, and all of them are worthy of fighting it out for number one.

 

[BenitoChavez]

21. Kristina/Sweden [49] = 52 - 3. Can't compete with Teddy's DF generation.
25. Matthias Corvinus/Hungary [35]
41. Teddy Roosevelt/America [43] = 42 + 1. Definitely the strongest DF civ out there. For every wildcard + diplo card slot Teddy has, in order to match the DF generation Matthias needs to be suzerain that many more city-states and Kristina needs to earn that many great people every 50 turns. Teddy gets DF early, it is free, it scales up nicely through the game, and it can be boosted through some wonders.

 

[leandrombraz]

21. Kristina/Sweden [49]
25. Matthias Corvinus/Hungary [32] (35-3) - By far the most fun to play and my favorite for diplomacy. I don't think it stay much behind Sweden and America and by now we're splitting hairs here, there isn't a lot of difference in power level between these Civs
41. Teddy Roosevelt/America [44] (43+1) - I'll go with the stable, direct source of extra favors.

 

[TeddyMain]

21. Kristina/Sweden [49]
25. Matthias Corvinus/Hungary [29] [32-3] City-states are an unreliable source of favor, being able to be wiped out at a moment's notice. Matthias is excellent at protecting them, but the fact that his DV bonuses come from an unstable source puts him at a disadvantage compared to Kristina and Teddy. Not to mention, city-states that have already been conquered can't be liberated via liberation or protectorate wars, and thus Matthias could possibly generate some grievances.
41. Teddy Roosevelt/America [45] (44+1) People, sorry to be the party-pooper, but this thread is about who has the best attributes to win a diplo victory, not which civ is the most fun to win a diplo victory with: that is second priority. We can all agree that Teddy's is the least entertaining, but it is by far the most stable, reliable, and direct source of diplo favor. Not to mention, unlike Kristina, he is unlikely to overshoot for a cultural victory due to his bonuses, since as someone previously mentioned, all he needs to do is avoid building his UI.

Am I the only one who thinks this race between the top 3 to see who will come out on top has actually been pretty exciting? I'm actually not certain who will come out on top to be honest.

 

[SirMediocrity]

21. Kristina/Sweden [50] (49+1) Amazing diplomatic favor ability that works well with their other great people bonuses.
25. Matthias Corvinus/Hungary [26] (29-3) Like the last guys have said, city-states are a relatively unreliable source of diplomatic favor.
41. Teddy Roosevelt/America [45]

 

[Leucarum]

21. Kristina/Sweden [51] (50+1) Just rolling in DF
25. Matthias Corvinus/Hungary [26]
41. Teddy Roosevelt/America [42] (45-3) Not a scratch on Kristina

 

[kryat]

21. Kristina/Sweden [51]
25. Matthias Corvinus/Hungary [27] (26+1)
41. Teddy Roosevelt/America [39] (45-3)

@lotrmith actually had an interesting point earlier. By claiming suzerain status over opponents, you lessen their favor, which in turn makes votes easier to win. This is over and above any extra favor per turn you yourself are earning, meaning on net, your favor is worth more. Matthias might not win a DV game against Teddy, but he might have an easier time winning against almost anyone else than Teddy would have.