Directional Defending?

[El Caballerion]

So... I finally made it through the two hours of live streaming from Monday night's game. Overall, it was pretty much what I expected. Combat seems like it will be pretty fun, though I think the screen is going to be absolutely cluttered with military units by the Modern era.

In any case... any of you ever play FINAL FANTASY TACTICS for old school Playstation back in the day? The fighting in that game was turn based, and after every turn, you had to face your characters a specific way. If your character's back was turned away from the enemy when they attacked, you would take additional damage.

Wouldn't it be more fair to make CIV 5's fighting like also this? Like if your units are not facing the enemy and the enemy comes up directly behind or to the side of your unit and attacks, you would take more damage than if they attacked you head on? A real-time example would be similar to the fighting in the TOTAL WAR series, where if you attacked the enemy's line from the sides or from the back, you would have a huge attack bonus. I don't think this idea of flanking or directional defending is in CIV V, but I think it would add a nice offensive/defensive element. If only it were in the game!

 

[moysturfurmer]

More or less represented with flanking.

 

[El Caballerion]

THE FOLLOWING MESSAGE WAS MEANT FOR A NEW THREAD... WHOOPS

So we all know by now that CIV 5's combat system is largely inspired by the Panzer General series from the 90s. I used to love playing PG 2, and think it's a great game to emulate.

One great feature from PG2, was RUGGED DEFENSE. Essentially, it would come about randomly (maybe once every 25-30 battles), and would assure the defender's victory against an overwhelming attacker. It makes sense, as sometimes in history, a small group of defenders have sometimes miraculously fought off a hoard of attackers (think of the Spartans at Thermopylae). I love randomness (kinda angry that there's no random events in CIV V anymore), and as it would happen only rarely, it would add an interesting edge to combat... though of course, I would hope it wouldn't allow a warrior to win against a modern infantry unit lol.

Those in favor, say 'aye'.

 

[krunsh]

I don't think it would work well in civ. It would be so easy to abuse this with cavalery with the new amount of movement every unit have per turn. Like ''Moysturfurmer'' said, this is already represented by the flanck bonus you get from allied troop and make more sense.. Since from the scale of the game, an army would have more than enough time to turn and face the single ennemy army coming from behind.

And as a Online player, I say this would take to much time in every turn.

 

[Scramble]

I don't think directional combat is entirely nessesary. In a lot of tactics based games such as FF:T, all the pieces are pretty damn capable of defending themselves.
In CiV, the directional weakness is simulated by the idea that Archers and Catapults and other such things are virtually incapable of defending themselves, and require the positional advantage, other units and ZoC abuse in order to perform their job effectively.
Also, for every unit in melee range of your target, you get a bonus attacking them, so it requires you to position yourself in a way to defend against that...

I think unit facing positions is something that really would make a game like CiV absolutely tedious when you have SO much more to watch. It's no big deal Tactics games, since you ONLY have that area of land to worry about, and don't need to bother with managing an entire empire in the background.

 

[AriochIV]

Units exist on a fairly large scale, and represent a large body of troops -- something like a regiment or division. At such a large scale, facing really doesn't have much meaning. A division isn't all pointed in one direction. Similarly, at the large time scales involved, units have plenty of time to face an approaching enemy.

And as others have mention, I think unit facing would add a great deal of micromanagement for very little added gameplay value.

 

[Giant Dwarf]

Yeah, waaay too much micro for my taste

 

[SeismoGraf]

BattleIsle also had directional defense, but because you weren't able to rotate a unit, it complicated matters quite a bit. All in all I don't think it would be worth it for Civ5, the hassle would outweigh the tactical and fun factor.

Also, for every unit in melee range of your target, you get a bonus attacking them, so it requires you to position yourself in a way to defend against that...

Don't you need the SP Discipline (+15% Combat Strength bonus from an adjacent friendly unit) for that effect? I've seen the +15% "flanking bonus" on several occasions and would wish it was a standard mechanic, available to all civs right from the start...

 

[vranasm]

I was thinking that directional combat with directional move would be great for naval combat, since naval ships are more closely tied to representing 1 civ ship = 1 real ship.

Add to it that ships would shoot only in specific angles... like for example ships of line shooting only on broad side etc.

 

[lietkynes]

In any case... any of you ever play FINAL FANTASY TACTICS for old school Playstation back in the day? The fighting in that game was turn based, and after every turn, you had to face your characters a specific way. If your character's back was turned away from the enemy when they attacked, you would take additional damage.

Final Fantasy Tactics is a wonderful game, I still play it on my PC (with PSXe emulator), but I don't think this feature fits well with Civ.

 

[stealth_nsk]

What this feature is supposed to give?
If you know from this direction the attack may come, this is just unnecessary complication.
If you're attacked from multiple direction, you just pick the strongest attacker.

No gameplay value for feature which requires so much control and micro.

 

[Tennyson]

My first impression of Civ V was that going to hexes was motivated by a desire to make Civ V more war-gamey. Firaxis has denied that and so far I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt. But hassling with hex facing would reinforce my suspicions.

Hopefully it would be easy to mod out.

 

[PieceOfMind]

I'm about 99.999% certain that "facing" is not going to be a feature of civ5, and about 99% sure it will never be in any patch or expansion pack either. About 60% sure it will never be in a mod (i.e. I'm not sure).

 

[moopoo]

I'm about 99.999% certain that "facing" is not going to be a feature of civ5, and about 99% sure it will never be in any patch or expansion pack either. About 60% sure it will never be in a mod (i.e. I'm not sure).

I don't know about that, seeing as it featured in the BTS mod Afterworld. AS A MATTER OF FACT *clears throat* I think it probably will feature in a mod sometime down the track, as Civ5 seems to be much better suited to that kind of RPG mod than civ4

 

[Zhahz]

I'd agree with PieceOfMind, there's about no chance they'd add something like facing because it doesn't really add anything.

My first impression of Civ V was that going to hexes was motivated by a desire to make Civ V more war-gamey. Firaxis has denied that and so far I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt

War has always been present in Civ - usually very present. I don't think hexes make civ more of a war game, it just improves (or changes) the quality of war.

 

[Tennyson]

War has always been present in Civ - usually very present. I don't think hexes make civ more of a war game, it just improves (or changes) the quality of war.

I cannot think of any hex-based computer or tabletop game that is less of a wargame than Civ. Hexes are almost solely a wargame fetish.

 

[PieceOfMind]

I don't know about that, seeing as it featured in the BTS mod Afterworld. AS A MATTER OF FACT *clears throat* I think it probably will feature in a mod sometime down the track, as Civ5 seems to be much better suited to that kind of RPG mod than civ4

Ok, maybe it's a bit more likely than it is unlikely, to appear in a mod, but I would still call official mods mods.

 

[Panzeh]

I cannot think of any hex-based computer or tabletop game that is less of a wargame than Civ. Hexes are almost solely a wargame fetish.

Obviously you've never played Settlers of Catan.

 

[matt112986]

How do you determine what is an advantage when there is no direct north/south directions? Every tile is either to the east or west of any selected tile. Thus there is east/west directly and northeast, northwest, southeast, and southwest. Is a unit facing southwest weak to only northeast or both north tiles in general?

 

[Tennyson]

Obviously you've never played Settlers of Catan.

Ah, good point.