[R&F] Discussing the Design of Era Dedications

[Hellenism Salesman]

It's been a while since I've rambled extensively about something Civ-related, so I thought I'd dig my teeth into one of Civ VI's meatiest designs: Era dedications.

1: Clarification
I think a crucial step in reaching a consensus on improved era dedications is understanding the designers' initial purpose in the design we have. But, to do that, I'm going to introduce some vital vocabulary.

When designing practically anything in a 4X, you're going to come across two kinds of bonuses: Initiators and Rewards.

• Initiators are bonuses intended to ease the process of doing something. They make doing something easier, faster, or more efficient. Some prime examples of this are Nubia's Ta-Seti (makes training Ranged Units easier and makes earning promotions for them happen faster), the Ottomans' Great Turkish Bombard (makes training Sieged Units faster and makes damaging cities with them faster), or the very existence of Korea's Seowon, which the unilateral purpose of is obvious. There are also some extreme examples of initiators like Arabia's The Last Prophet, which guarantees you a Religion, skipping you some hurdles during your early game.
• Rewards are bonuses that are a prize for accomplishing something. They are what the initiators lead up to. China's Dynastic Cycle and Macedon's Hellenistic Fusion are great examples of this: they reward you for certain things the Civs are inclined to do, but do not ease the process of doing them.

Understanding initiators and rewards is essential in understanding the designers' purpose in the version of Era dedications we currently possess.

2: What were they trying to do?
In the version of Era dedications we have, their designs can be split pretty distinctly into our two categories. On average, Dark Age dedications alongside their policies and Normal Age dedications are initiators- tools to catch up with the competition or score a Golden Age in the future. Typically, Golden Ages are designed as rewards (usually for specialization) to congratulate players on playing their cards correctly and reaching the Era score threshold. If these rules were more closely followed, then I wouldn't classify Era dedications as a flawed system. I mostly agree with the designers' philosophy on centering the Era system around scoring Golden Ages. But... there are some rather crucial exceptions to this philosophy that cause problems.

Exodus of the Evangelists and the elephant in the room- Monumentality- are both notable exceptions to the "Golden Ages are rewards" philosophy. These two dedications are both very distinct initiators for general aspects of the game- expansion (and infrastructure) and religion. While religion isn't guaranteed to be a part of your strategy (unless you shoehorn yourself into it by choosing Arabia, Byzantium, Georgia, or Poland), Civ VI is a game all about going wide and catching every morsel of land you possibly can. So, when you give players a giant, powerful initiator that transfers two of the most versatile resources- Faith and Gold- into tools that can result in rapid mass-expansion (one that can be used back-to-back across multiple eras, might I add), your design is going to break. Especially in the case of Monumentality, these two dedications are such powerful, effortless initiators that they practically become rewards simply thanks to how monumentally (no pun intended) they can shape a game.

It doesn't help that the existence of these two dedications also steps on the design space of their companions. Free Inquiry and Pen, Brush, and Voice are two reward dedications designed as powerful, strategy-defining bonuses that encourage specialization. Free Inquiry asks you to focus on commerce, while Pen, Brush, and Voice asks you to perform the much simpler task (with admittedly lower reward) of building districts. Simple as these prerequisites may be, they both reward players who have built their empires in specific ways with prosperous benefits befitting of a Golden Age. Additionally, they each have a stark focus- Free Inquiry is your Science dedication, while Pen, Brush, and Voice is your Culture dedication. But, once you throw the problem children into the mix, their clear, well-defined design space gets trampled. Monumentality now competes with Free Inquiry as a Gold-specialization dedication, and Monumentality competes with Exodus of the Evangelists for the title of "better Faith dedication."

While my definition of initiators and rewards is mostly for the sake of discussion and the line between them can easily start to blur, I think they're worthwhile tools when it comes to discussing the balance and, perhaps, inconsistent design philosophy of Era dedications, and, to a greater extent, the game as a whole.

3: What might be better?
Here comes the part that might get me redirected to the Ideas subforum. I'm asking for your feedback so we can construct a better Era system. Is the current initiator/reward split in Dark, Normal, and Golden Ages a good idea? Should the purpose of Dark and Normal Ages be greater than "you didn't get a Golden Age, here's some help for next time"? Should Golden Ages be solely designed for strategy-defining specialization rewards? I don't have the answers, but I have been procrastinating sleep for far too long. So, I leave you this longwinded, overwritten discussion post to lead you to your own conclusions.

As for myself, I've got to get to bed.

 

[Chefofrats]

I appreciate your effort to give structure to the discussion by introducing terms and definitions, but I do not agree with your conclusions. Monumentality IS a reward - for reaching a golden age and managing to get a lot of faith output you are rewarded with the opportunity to quickly and effortlessly expand. Initiating improved expansion IS the reward. And it feels like it, too.

 

[Hellenism Salesman]

I appreciate your effort to give structure to the discussion by introducing terms and definitions, but I do not agree with your conclusions. Monumentality IS a reward - for reaching a golden age and managing to get a lot of faith output you are rewarded with the opportunity to quickly and effortlessly expand. Initiating improved expansion IS the reward. And it feels like it, too.

Yeah, I began to come to that conclusion myself as a I was writing it. It's what prompted the mention of the blurry line between initiators and rewards, actually. I'm going to change the OP when I get the time, but for now I just want to clarify my thoughts have already changed. I do see Monumentality as a reward (and a hefty one, at that) despite being made of initiators, but still believe that it's too rewarding not to choose and is at cross purposes with the other dedications.

 

[UWHabs]

Yeah, I began to come to that conclusion myself as a I was writing it. It's what prompted the mention of the blurry line between initiators and rewards, actually. I'm going to change the OP when I get the time, but for now I just want to clarify my thoughts have already changed. I do see Monumentality as a reward (and a hefty one, at that) despite being made of initiators, but still believe that it's too rewarding not to choose and is at cross purposes with the other dedications.

I mean, golden ages are by definitions rewards for achieving stuff from the previous era, but I do think there's a notion that those rewards still break down into the broadly defined tiers in your OP. I think if you change the notion to figure out essentially the main bonus achieved in the rewards, that can help clarify.

So, for example, Monumentality and Exodus are mostly rewards that give you a bonus when you do or buy something - namely expansion and religion, respectively. They essentially give no benefit if you don't actively pursue those goals. Now, granted, you will always need builders in an era, so there's always some passive bonus, but that's a secondary piece.

Whereas, by contract, Pen, Brush & Voice is much more of a pure reward. Have a lot of districts complete? Get a bigger bonus. Yes, obviously if you chase more inspirations, they give more, but that's a minor secondary piece on the whole. At least, I can't imagine ever thinking to myself to explicitly chase an inspiration while running the policy.

Continuing to the other earlier dedications in these broad themes, I would argue:
Reform the Coinage: More of a reward. Obviously it encourages a shift in trade routes, but it's mostly about giving you a bonus if you can get more external routes.
Hic Sunc Dracones: Initiator - you need to actively seek out the new lands and settle for the bonus
Heartbeat of Steam: This is tougher, you could probably argue the wonder bonus is initiator and the campus bonus is a reward
Free Inquiry: Reward
(I don't have enough modern era times to dig through all the benefits)

A lot of this is another reason why Monumentality is such a strong early golden age policy - generally speaking, early game, you do not have your empire set up to the level you can really benefit from the "Rewards". Like, I've had games playing as England with early harbor locations in great spots, but even in those games, I'm only barely getting them all online by the first couple eras, so I wouldn't even consider going FI early. The only real argument with the early golden age is whether you need that religion push.

As for the last part, whether it's a good idea, I don't know. Talking specifically about the dedications, I think it probably makes more sense to avoid the "initiator" rewards entirely, and the golden age should be entirely about reaping the opulence of what has brought you there. Even something like Heartbeat of Steam sometimes ends up being about making a push to build Industrial wonders, whereas it would be curious to see how it would function if instead it gave you something like large yields for each industrial wonder in your empire.

 

[Vargas1]

I think it's a more straightforward issue, which is that given the importance (and difficulty) of early expansion, Monumentality is overpowered as compared to other Golden Age rewards. Unless you are planning to have virtually zero faith income, it is almost always the right choice (outside of specific circumstances, like maybe playing with England/Phoenicia who can rapidly build lots of harbors).

Personally, I'd like to see it limited to only a Classical-era dedication. Having a strong enough faith output in the Classical era to take full advantage of it requires some doing and I think is worthy of getting a strong reward. Where it becomes really overpowered is in the Medieval (and to a lesser extent Renaissance, only because there are fewer places for new cities) - it's likely by that point you can have a reasonably developed empire and are able to just pump out a large number of settlers to really snowball away.

 

[Zegangani]

Interesting Topic. And thanks Hellenism Salesman for explaining those Terms and Definitions to us.

Although I like the Bonuses of the Dedications I never liked how (how not that) they change with the Ages, specifically the Dark Age Dedications. Golden Age Dedications are good and Powerful and it's also good that they don't provide Era Scores (hence Rewards, because you shouldn't get provided with Era Scores that help you stay in a Golden Age - Forget Georgia for a Moment ), and Normal Age Dedications help you earn more Era Scores to either staying stable in a Normal Age or getting a Golden Age, but Dark Age Dedications shouldn't be the same as Normal Age Dedications. There should be Dedications specifically for Dark Age, which help a Civ to stabilize their Empire and build it, while also providing Era Scores for doing so.

So I think Dedications of each Age should work like this:
- Golden Age: The Dedications are Rewards for managing your Empire well and getting a Golden Age. Bonuses should be only Rewards and never Initiators, like no Monumentality GA Bonus that help you further grow your Empire but Bonuses more like Pen, Brush and Voice, rewards for already having a well managed Empire.
- Normal Age: should stay the same, like helping you get more Era Scores to get to a Golden Age with Initiators. Though, a Single Initiator that help growing your Empire would also fit here (Ideally a diplomatic/international Bonus for external growth, like international trade route bonuses).
- Dark Age: The Dedications should be also Initiators like in Normal Age, but they help you manage and grow your Empire. So in Comparison to Golden Age Bonus of Pen, Brush and Voice: " Inspirations provide an additional 10% of Civic costs. +1 Culture per Specialty Districts for each City." that is clearly a Reward, the Dark Age Bonus should be a Helper/Initiator, like "+20% Production when Building Theatre Square Districts and their Buildings. when building TS next to specialty Districts or City Center they get a normal Adjacency Bonus instead of a minor adj Bonus (the Adj Bonus stays for the whole Game, but the dedication effect works only in a dark Age)" (The Bonuses should be Natonal and for internal growth only). And an Additional +1 Era Score when doing X (while there are 2 in Normal Ages), so that they also help you get a Normal or Heroic Age.

Basically, Golden Age [you get 2 rewards for well managing your Empire], Normal Age [2 Effects that help getting more Era Scores and 1 Initiator that help growing your Empire externally] and Dark Age [1 Effect that help getting more Era Scores and 2 Initiators that help managing and grow your Empire internally].

I was also thinking of a Governor that is only available in dark Ages that help you with your Loyalty Issues, but I don't know if it's a good Idea since you would rarely benefit from him through out the whole Game.

 

[kaspergm]

I appreciate your effort to give structure to the discussion by introducing terms and definitions, but I do not agree with your conclusions. Monumentality IS a reward - for reaching a golden age and managing to get a lot of faith output you are rewarded with the opportunity to quickly and effortlessly expand. Initiating improved expansion IS the reward. And it feels like it, too.

I'm all for a topic discussing the design of the era dedications, and I think the distinction between rewards and initiators is interesting, but I agree very much with chefofrats here: Monumentality is certainly a reward in my book, possibly the biggest reward in the entire game in fact, and I'd also say that Exodus Of The Evangelists is a reward, although I can see why it falls a bit more in the grey zone - however, the reward as I see it is that you get a lot of extra charges (and movement), which is a reward, because it helps you achieve the goal that is to spread your religion, a goal you would have (or should have, if you pick this dedication) regardless of the age system.