Discussion: Civilizations and Leaders

I understand. Still, the Hollow Earth fiction is far to rich to be left out entirely. How about adding entrences to the Hollow Earth as world improvements? While these grant a great yield at the same time you have to risk being attacked by Mole People or other subterrean beasts.
Regarding Alliances, their are many different people that could become worthy allies such as the Mahars of Pellucidar, the barbarians of Skartaris, the Arq people from the novel Arqtiq, the mole-like Moloids from Marvel Comics and the death-worshipping Kosekin from A Strange Manuscript Found in a Copper Cylinder.

I know. Once the superheroes are in place we can start looking at how viable a World Improvement system would be.
 
Actually, I'm just about done with Louis and Louis. They should be released soon.

I don't think I'll add Charlemagne to France. I know how important he is to the history and all, but I'm hesitant to add anyone who isn't wrapped up in a big ol' ball of fiction. People like Louis and Haroun Al-Raschid were kind of cop-outs when I was planning.

What? Charlemagne "I-triggered-the-series-of-events-that-led-to-France's-National-Epic-and-Star-of-the-literary-cycle-that-once-was-even-MORE-well-read-than-the-stories-of-King-Arthur-and-One-of-the-Three-Christian-Knights-who-embodied-the-ideals-of-Chivalry" isn't worthy of this mod because he isn't ingrained into Culture? What evil parallel universe do you live in?
 
However, you can't deny that Charlemagne is a historical character. While he has been prominent in fiction, too, there are plenty of .... more fictional leaders for France. Just think of the Count of Monte-Christo or Louis XIV's identical twin brother Philippe (better known as the Man with the Iron Mask).
Actually, I think early/medieval France is already represented well by Prince Charming and let's not forget that every leader should represent an age or an aspect of a civilization: King Arthur fits to early England, Gloriana corresponds with the British Empire and Big Brother represents modern-day Great Britain after the monarchy was replaced.

I don't think I'll add Charlemagne to France. I know how important he is to the history and all, but I'm hesitant to add anyone who isn't wrapped up in a big ol' ball of fiction. People like Louis and Haroun Al-Raschid were kind of cop-outs when I was planning.

Cop-outs, you say? Does that meen that there are plans to replace leaders such as Louis and Haroun as you did it with Ivan? In case that's your plan, the only fictional leader representing French Absolutism I can think of is Philippe (mentioend above).
Additionally, you can fictionalize leaders by merging them with a similar fictional character such as El Cid with Fierabas and Haroun Al-Rashid with Haroun El-Poussah.
 
Well, Louis I want to keep, partly because I like how the LH came out and partly because of my love of Mel Brooks in general.

Though I'm not sure about Al-Poussah. Raschid's Arabia is meant to represent the early Caliphate and the fantastical tales surrounding it like the ones from 1001 Nights. But Poussah seems a bit too, shall we say, goofy to represent that sense of wonder.
 
Well, Louis I want to keep, partly because I like how the LH came out and partly because of my love of Mel Brooks in general.

Though I'm not sure about Al-Poussah. Raschid's Arabia is meant to represent the early Caliphate and the fantastical tales surrounding it like the ones from 1001 Nights. But Poussah seems a bit too, shall we say, goofy to represent that sense of wonder.

I agree, there only similiarity is the similar names and the position as a Caliph. Nevertheless, I could imagine an elderly Raschid who became obese, lazy and somewhat naive because of one or two hits on the head by a flying carpet. And voila, there is Al-Poussah! Well, that's of no importance right now. Let's wait until someone is gonna write the actual pedia for Haroun.
 
Will we be adding leaders to all of the 1-leader empires if possible?We may have to merge cultures.

Like we could use Napaloni for Rome.

Also,what will we do with the leaders that don't have unique music yet?And the early and middle diplomusics?You could use the Iroquois and Apache diplomusic from colonization for Hiawatha and Winnetou respectively.And there is the Extra mod to consider,there I found music for Jaffe Joffer,which is Haile Selassie's late diplomusic.Jaffe and Selassie are also alike since they are both super-rich rulers of African nations while the common people are very poor.They also were both aligned with the USA.
 
They don't even need to be variants in my opinion.I'm using Aggy's(Agamemnon) diplomusic here in my mod as his late music after music from Extra.And I'm thinking of adding Putin to my mod with FR's(Besstrashniy) diplomusic as his middle or late.
 
Just thought of yet another civ idea. This one is a real-world civ, and I'm sure that there already exist a few mods that feature it already.

Polynesia
Leaders: Mau, Jacob
UU and UB: I'm sure there's an existing Polynesia civ on the Downloads database that you can use for these
LU: I'm not sure. Maybe something from Polynesian mythology? I'll have to look something up.
Superhero: The Monster
 
Had some free time, and I was thinkin' up some more about Carthage. While Dido and such is a major component of the Aeneid, and there's the mythology of the region rooting back to Phoenicia, there's not too much real "fiction" around it. So, if it IS added in, I'm thinkin', it should really encompass all of Northern Africa in that region, along with its Phoenician roots. Not to an extreme extent, but, as far as fiction goes, y'know?

For example, the Lotus-Eaters from the Odyssey, the marriage between the Princess of Naples and the King of Tunisia from the Tempest, up to modern day Islamic stuff.

LEADER: Dido (Financial/Heroic) ~ Carthage was founded as a colony, the Phoenicians were well known for their trade, and Dido was wife of a VERY rich king - so, Financial. Heroic because she's from an epic and was closely related to Aeneas, an epic hero. Both are open to change, though.
UNIQUE UNIT/BUILDING: Same as regular Civilization.
LEGENDARY UNIT: Perhaps the use of Ba'al as a generic term for "lord?" In Semitic tradition, if Wikipedia is accurate, Ba'al is a generic term for Canaanite deities, and is often used interchangeably with high-ranking officials and such in cities. Phoenicia was in Canaan, and Carthage took the same traditions... so, there you go. It's tenuous, but I can't really find anything else from the period. However, like I said, going into more general North African stuff could open some doors.
SUPERHERO: Mohammed Ibn Bornu ~ I think he's from further south than traditional Carthage's region, but... North African superheroes are kinda hard to find! And he rides on a metal horse. Which is awesome.

...and on an unrelated note, Korobeniki (or the Tetris adaptation) MUST be used as Ivan the Fool's music, if you're using him for Russia. Not only is it a famous mark on pop culture, but it's about a poor peddler and his romance, which is pretty common in Ivan stories, if I recall correctly. Too perfect not to fit.
 
I have an idea for a civ. Rapture of Bioshock fame.
Leaders: Andrew Ryan(Phi/Ind), Frank Fontaine(Agg/Fin)
UB: Bathysphere/Rapture Metro(Replaces Mass Transit): :health: from water tiles, or :commerce: bonus from trade with own cities.
UU:Big Daddy(Replaces Marine)
LU:?
SU:?
 
The Circle of Ossus. (If it could be a civ.)

Led by: Alain Magnan and Warwick
UU: Doppelsoldner (Replaces Maceman, can cause collateral damage)
UB: Fortress (Replaces Castle, bigger defense bonus
LU: Boneguard (12 Strength, 1 Move, Requires Civil Service and Iron, is three Boneguard swordsmen in Medieval era, then a Boneguard swordsman and two boneguard musketmen after, upgrades to Infantry)
SH: Beaumont would probably work. (He is pretty damn hard to kill, he is like the explorer of AOE 3, He doesn't die in gameplay.)
 
I've been thinking about a "Genoshan Empire" - y'know, based on Magneto's island from X-Men. Not particularly for Genosha, but more as the idea of a sovereign mutant/"special" state. Genosha is the major example, but I recall the Illuminati (the Marvel version, not the real one) discussed creating an independent superhero nation, the recent arc of Heroes has Samuel Sullivan wanting to create a homeland for superpowered people, and in Shadowrun, the new elves and such form governments.

To be honest I'm not sure it's really feasible, and it would make a REALLY weird empire, but, it's an interesting concept, at the very least. :dunno:
 
I'm not sure about that.

When I added the new civs I was mainly looking for nations with a lot of works attributed to them, or with a lot of detail put into their structure. Atlantis is one of the most commonly invoked fictional civilizations in the Western canon, as is Shambhala for the East. Transylvania conjures up a lot of lore spanning centuries, and Hyborea is a very vast and detailed world in itself. As for Freedo-Moronika, it's built from hundreds of different slivers of civilizations built into a whole. Genosha, really, is fairly confined to the X-Men series.

Mainly, I'm interested in civilizations with enough background to fill a real civilization.
 
How about Asterix as the 3rd Celtic leader? With some tweaks, MethylOrange's Vercingetorix leaderhead would work well as him.
 
How about Asterix as the 3rd Celtic leader? With some tweaks, MethylOrange's Vercingetorix leaderhead would work well as him.

I'm not sure about Asterix, but I agree that the Celts need another leader. Lear and Macbeth are great leaders, but both of them were from the British Isles and thus the entire continental Celts are not represented. Furthermore, the Celtic LH, the Fianna, are Irish and thus the only part of the Celtic civ representing continental Europe is X-O Manowar. And he is, in fact, Germanic.
Thus I think we really need a continental Celtic leader, possibly a Gaul. As much as I like the Asterix comics, Asterix himself is no leader but a hero. However, I could see Chief Vitalstatistix as a Celtic leader. As an alternative I think of Bran Mak Morn, the last king of the Picts from Conan the Barbarian's creator Robert E. Howard. Or maybe a character from Katharine Kerr's Deverry cycle?
 
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