Discussion: Economy

[NZL]

First and foremost, this discussion should be about Specialist Economy vs. Cottage Economy.
Offcourse: a Hybrid Economy is also a possibility and there u can choose to emphasize specialists or cottages.

Secondary, this discussion should involve worker action decisions to maximize their benefit for the chosen economy and, if applicable, distribution of specialists in the cities.

I think our leader traits ask for a Specialist Economy at first and maybe making a switch to Cottage Economy later on [due to emancipation: however, culture slider might let us keep Caste System].

 

[Provolution]

I also recommend a specialist economy, as we got the great people advantage from philosophic trait, which rewards priests, scientists etc. We also seem to have the advantage of food to do so, and dyes farther SW.

This means writing and code of laws is yet the way to go, as we need that anyways for Samurai (Civil Service from there).

 

[NZL]

Let's hope for a nearby stone then so we can build the Pyramids

 

[fed1943]

As we are Philo and not Fin, SE or an hybrid more to SE looks better,indeed.

About a farms/cottages thing in Ariete, I'm not so sure (is it here the place to
think about?) :

Before any farm or cottage, our capital has 6 Food Surplus (site+pigs+fish with
lighthouse-3 mined grass/hills). Then, 3 specialists.
Two farmed grass, more one spec. to 4 total.
With CS, more 5 farmed grass, more 2,5 spec. for the grand total of 6,5 spec..
OR, keeping the first 3 spec., 7 cottages can be done with Pottery.
(Of course, there is the Health and Happy caps, but it "works" for both).

While the said 3 spec. is a no brain, I think, not so sure about the last 1+2,5 v.
7 cottages. I know still early, terrain is unknown, but when a future worker will
go to that tiles he needs to know what to build.

Best regards,

 

[NZL]

We can farm 4 grasslands right away, not two. [notice the difference between the pig tile, which cannot be farmed cause no connection to river, and the tiles just north and just west of the city that are connected to the river and thus can be farmed]

I'd go for these 4 farms so we can work the mines on the hills and employ specialists later [when library is built]. The rest of the grassland can become cottage.
Therefor, start with mines to boost production and earlier [and thus more] chance of discovering gold silver gems etc

 

[BCLG100]

If we are running an SE presumably this discussion is moot as you cottage the capital so you actually have some gold coming in. You then farm all the other cities, you have to cottage the capital otherwise your not going to have enough gold to maintain your cities...

 

[NZL]

1. This discussion isn't moot since it's not about capital only, it just is now because it's our only city.
2. In the early game you can build 4 farms and fill the rest with cottages since the city won't reach size 20, and a diverse worked terrain increases flexibility to the city's needs [for example when or cap increases i tend to switch citizens from cottage to farm to grow asap and after growth switch back to cottages / other example: when capital is producing worker/settler, farms > cottages]. It's only mid-late game [i'd even say post-food corp in a SE] that you have to cottage over the farms.

 

[fed1943]

Yes, I think you are right and we are lucky.
Three farms already possible, not counting the two grass/forests.
And strong hammers places to the north.
An almost pure SE looks very possible and rewarding.
Best regards,

 

[BCLG100]

1. This discussion isn't moot since it's not about capital only, it just is now because it's our only city.
2. In the early game you can build 4 farms and fill the rest with cottages since the city won't reach size 20, and a diverse worked terrain increases flexibility to the city's needs [for example when or cap increases i tend to switch citizens from cottage to farm to grow asap and after growth switch back to cottages / other example: when capital is producing worker/settler, farms > cottages]. It's only mid-late game [i'd even say post-food corp in a SE] that you have to cottage over the farms.

As you were referring to the capital in the previous posts then infact the discussion was about the capital.

Right but the cottages need to grow so you may as well build the cottages and have them worked- were not going to need any farms as we purposefully moved here so we would have more than enough food. We have hills to mine if we want production of anything else which will be a lot more usefull than farms. Whilst building these farms takes up valuable early time which is better used elsewhere. By switching early what do you gain? if health or happy do increase then so what? growth for the sake of growth?

If a city takes 10 turns to grow whilst working cottages but 7 turns to grow whilst working food- you lose 3 turns worth of commerce in that time but we get to grow earlier, to what benefit? those 3 turns wont bring back the commerce lost from switching. Whilst if we do need to produce a settler quicker we have pigs and fish so can work enough mines quite easily- there is simply no point in wasting the worker turns building the farms.

 

[NZL]

Have you considered whip recovery and surplus food for specialists...

those 3 turns wont bring back the commerce lost from switching.

You don't lose 3 turns of commerce, you gain three turns where u can work an extra cottage after your city has grown..

 

[BCLG100]

Right so 7 turns of working a farm + 3 turns of working the original cottages+ an extra cottage.

Hypothetically lets say the cottages have 3 gold for ease of numbers and you have to switch 4 tiles.
4*1 (for the farm)*7=28
+((3*4=12) +1(new cottage)) *3= 39
28+39=67
During the same time
3*4=12 *10 =120 gold.

So a substantial gold difference during that period alone, i have thought about the whip indeed but anything we would be whipping can be maintained by the fish and pigs. Whilst if we are planning on running a predominantly SE economy we shouldn't try and run any specialists in the capital as the gold coming in from the cottages we will need to maintain the rest of our empire.

 

[AluminumKnight]

I don't mean to be off-topic, but I didn't realize that in an SE economy you want your capital to be cottaged

Maybe this is why I fail at SE... or maybe I should have actually fully read a guide or two...

 

[BCLG100]

I don't mean to be off-topic, but I didn't realize that in an SE economy you want your capital to be cottaged

Maybe this is why I fail at SE... or maybe I should have actually fully read a guide or two...

It generally helps- otherwise where else is the money going to come from to keep your cities affloat? this way you can run Bearo throughout the game and maintain your tech speed by hiring scientist specialists rather than merchant specialists to offset maintenance of cities further away.

edit- a guide of two would probably help yeah

 

[NZL]

Right so 7 turns of working a farm + 3 turns of working the original cottages+ an extra cottage.

Hypothetically lets say the cottages have 3 gold for ease of numbers and you have to switch 4 tiles.
4*1 (for the farm)*7=28
+((3*4=12) +1(new cottage)) *3= 39
28+39=67
During the same time
3*4=12 *10 =120 gold.

So a substantial gold difference during that period alone, i have thought about the whip indeed but anything we would be whipping can be maintained by the fish and pigs. Whilst if we are planning on running a predominantly SE economy we shouldn't try and run any specialists in the capital as the gold coming in from the cottages we will need to maintain the rest of our empire.

Hm, you might be right, but could you check please [i can't since i'm at work without access to civ ] that switching 4 cottage to farms only gains 3 turns in growing the city?
Let's try your calcs with city growth in 6 turns compared to 10, instead of 7 turns [note, this is an assumption i make, can't verify it atm]:

Hypothetically lets say the cottages have 3 gold for ease of numbers and you have to switch 4 tiles.
4*1 (for the farm)*6=24
+((4*4=16) +1(new cottage)) *4= 68
24+68=92
During the same time
3*4=12 *10 =120 gold.
The difference is a lot smaller now.
Also note that growing faster gives a net hammers increase since you'll be able to work an extra tile with hammers 4 turns sooner, which is in the beginning as important or even more important than gold. [with the horsies appearing we now have 4 tiles with hammers in cap's bfc]

I admit that my previous arguement is flawed [see post #10 in this thread] but i stay with my opinion that when a city CAN grow, it should do so asap.

I don't mean to be off-topic, but I didn't realize that in an SE economy you want your capital to be cottaged

Maybe this is why I fail at SE... or maybe I should have actually fully read a guide or two...

Well, it doesn't have to be your capital, it can be another city as well. But bureaucracy civic is a strong arguement for cottaging the capital, and not another city. Mostly when i play a game, i move my palace to a holy city which then becomes capital and receives wall street later on, cause i noticed that your starting city mostly has very good potential for being the Super Science City in a SE, and it's seldom a holy city. @BCLG100: I guess this response to AlKnight explains why i prefer to farm my starting city instead of cottage it. Especially in this case where our starting city [note that i don't say capital ] is food rich]

EDIT: i guess this is another reason to go fight Hatty, no? It serves our economy

 

[Seidrik_The_Gray]

I always build cottages, unless I really need the food. My research skyrockets, and I rarely need to trade for techs, and I have allot of specialists to boot. Now, when you can support huge mega cities, then obviously you will need the food, but I refer you back to the beginning of this paragraph. Cottages->Specialist->Farm. Arete has the food it needs to grow to our happiness cap already.

And you really can't whip but once every 10-15 turns to maintain optimal size and economic growth. I prefer to whip satellite cities who desperately need the production. With Horse Archers this early in the game, we stand to do better rushing Hatty with unpromoted horse archers. 1) she wont have spearmen or maybe just one, and if we rush her with 6, especially at the capital, we stand to face 2 archers and a spearman tops. However, if we wait to build three cities, then a barracks and a stable in the warlord city, then whip the horse archers, we will most likely be facing more archers, more spearmen and possibly an axeman and a couple chariots.