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Discussion: Term 6 Judicial Procedures

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Demo Game: Citizens' started by DaveShack, May 29, 2006.

  1. DaveShack

    DaveShack Inventor Retired Moderator

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    Please discuss the Term 6 Judicial Procedures here.
     
  2. dutchfire

    dutchfire Deity

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    Could you say what's wrong with the current Judicial Procedures?
     
  3. Swissempire

    Swissempire Poet Jester

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    i think we shouldn't have procedures. We should have a court that dishes out vigilante justice. KA-POW

    Actaully, I take that back and second Dutchfire
     
  4. dutchfire

    dutchfire Deity

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    Actually, what are the current procedures?
     
  5. Vind2

    Vind2 Woof?

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    Little of topic but are you sure this is in the right place?
     
  6. dutchfire

    dutchfire Deity

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    it's not, but a request to move it has already been made
     
  7. donsig

    donsig Low level intermediary

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    Judicial procedures have varied from term to term. The current (term 5) procedures are here.

    The term 5 procedures varied from earlier procedures in the ares of recusals; the omisssion of the absence investigation; and the cluase which enables two concurring justices to make rulings. Might be more changes but I'm in a hurry to enjoy my day off. ;)
     
  8. dutchfire

    dutchfire Deity

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    well, they look alright to me, though they're a bit long ;)
     
  9. Nobody

    Nobody Gangster

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    One thing i always thought should be changed. When a CC happens the JA is responsable for creating the Trial thread and the first post. I think the CJ should do this, and pass on any instructions to the jury. So its like he is the court ect.
     
  10. DaveShack

    DaveShack Inventor Retired Moderator

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    There isn't necessarily anything wrong with them. Someone whom I admire suggested that there should be an opportunity for discussion.
     
  11. Black_Hole

    Black_Hole Deity

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    then we have to wait for the JA to post before the trial can begin along with the PD and defender... This would just add more time to the trial without any benefit in my opinion... Because the Judge Advocate could just be waiting around for the CJ to post his jurer instructions, which should already be known
     
  12. GeorgeOP

    GeorgeOP RF Bleachers

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    A couple of ideas I would like to have changed in the Procedures

    *changed text in Bold Underline.

    I think it should be clear that the defendant has a right to defend themself, if they so choose.

    I'm not sure exactally how I want it worded, but I think new evidence should allow a retrial.
     
  13. donsig

    donsig Low level intermediary

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    There were significant changes made in term five that departed from the procedures used in the first four terms. I made the changes on my own (though I did consult with Cyc). Since the original procedures were written by the term 6 CJ I am not sure if my changes will be carried over or not. I'm hoping this discussion will either confirm that my changes are good (and worth keeping) or give the new CJ backing if he wants to remove them.

    I agree they are long but I think they are shorter than those used in the first four terms.

    I'm not sure we should allow new evidence to be a reason for retrying someone. If we go through a trial and the person is found not guilty we should leave it at that. If a person if found guilty and new evidence exonerates him (or her) then we don't really need a trial to correct the wrong, do we?

    As for posting the trial thread, I thought the term five procedures were more flexible in who did what. I tried to write procedures that allowed the judiciairy to function even if there was a CC against a judicial member. I really see no reason for judiciary members to recuse themselves if they are CCed. The judiciary is not the jury. The PD certainly should be able to defend himself as PD if he is CCed. If the JA is CCed then I tried to write procedures that would allow the CJ to act as JA for that specific CC whereas if the CJ was CCed the JA would act as CJ for that trial. (And after all that work no one even CCed a judicial member. :( )
     
  14. DaveShack

    DaveShack Inventor Retired Moderator

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    Actually, someone did, but it was misinterpreted as a pending / future case instead of the real deal. As much fun as it would have been to pursue a CC, it was more fun to stretch the bounds of the "not defined elsewhere" clause.

    I agree 100% with keeping the prohibition on double jeapordy. If "extraordinary" new evidence is found, it's probably found by a mod and such evidence is likely to result in a forum sanction anyway. If ordinary new evidence is found, shame on the prosecutor and complaintant for not doing a good enough job to find it the 1st time around.

    I'm generally in favor of flexibility in who posts threads / polls, and order of postings by the various parties. The only reason we have the JA go first in a trial thread is that some RL justice systems do it that way. It would be equally valid for the defense or the accused to post first. The key is that both sides and the accused can post before the citizens.
     
  15. Swissempire

    Swissempire Poet Jester

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    I CC''ed you twice Donsig when you were a Justice, though i retracted both before they were ruled on....
     
  16. donsig

    donsig Low level intermediary

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    Aw, darn. And it's too late now to do the CC. :cry:

    [donsig scratches his head and wonders what DS means by that remark about stretching bounds...]
     
  17. GeorgeOP

    GeorgeOP RF Bleachers

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    That's a good point. I retract my second proposed change.
     
  18. DaveShack

    DaveShack Inventor Retired Moderator

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    To all, thank you for your comments and suggestions. The draft Term 6 procedures can be found in the Judiciary Thread. I know, the extra section at the front makes it longer than ever but it's necessary to get some definitions out of the way.
     

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