uknemesis
The Nemesis
- Joined
- Jan 16, 2002
- Messages
- 2,293
Hey guys, finally got round to making the discussion thread for UKNES Reborn. The actual NES will probably be posted either Saturday night or Sunday night (Sunday most likely), depending on how many questions this thread throws up lol.
Now, this thread may end up taking more the role of a questionnaire lol, as I would love to hear people's views on the following subjects:
MAP
The old European UKNES map will be used for this, once I can find it again. Armies, Fleets, Fortifications and Cannon will all be shown on the map.
(1)*****If anyone knows where to get the old UKNES map, please reply! Thanks!*****
ERA
I have selected the Napoleonic era.
(2)*****Thoughts on this?*****
ECONOMY
Right, let's get down to business. Each province will give you a certain amount of income, set by the terrain which will be posted underneath the map on the front page. This has a flip-side, as those with fertile pastures are likely to be the hardest to defend (see Combat later on), however, they will also provide the biggest populations (see Population later on).
TERRAIN/STARTING POPULATION/GOLD INCOME/TERRAIN BONUSES
Fertile plains/5/5/-1 to Defender
Rolling hills/4/4/None
Hills/3/3/+1 to Defender
Forests/2/2/+2 to Defender
Mountains/1/1/+3 to Defender, units produced by population are Veteran
(3)*****Are these bonuses too strong?*****
Trade routes will bring in 1 gold per turn to each of the two countries involved, and cost 3 gold for each country to set up.
As for breaking trade routes, you get your original investment back, increasing the likelihood of a betrayal, and giving nations a cash boost option if they sacrifice their trade route. This is ONLY if one of the trading nations choose to break the trade route - NO money would be able to be got out of the trade route while it was being blocked by an enemy. Breaking a trade route would give you the 3 gold back the same turn, and would deny you the 1 gold from it that turn, but your opponent would still get the one gold from it that turn before having their 3 gold given back the next turn.
Trade routes must be over either your own provinces, the person you're trading with's, or allied or neutral provinces. They cannot go through enemy provinces or neutral ones that have declared an embargo against you. When going via sea provinces, they can only go through those with either your ships or your trading partner's ships in, or neutral or allied ships in. Any enemy ships or neutral ones blockading you, and the trade ships just won't go out, no matter what.
Fortifications cost 4 gold for a small fortification, which adds +1 bonus to all defenders, 7 gold for a medium fortification, which adds +2 bonus to all defenders, and finally 10 gold for a large fortification (or fort if your prefer) which adds +3 to all defenders.
(4)*****How do these trading and fort ideas sound? The trading one is designed to increase mistrust
*****
EDUCATION, SCIENCE AND RESEARCH
I have decided to ignore this aspect of gameplay to streamline the game.
(5)*****For or against? Tell me.*****
POPULATION, LOYALTY AND CREATING UNITS
Now this is where this UKNES will get a little bit different. Each province will have an available fighting-age male population, Men (cheers to Gelion for this little gem).
This will be your population in that province that can be called to arms. They will be split into three loyalties - Fanatical, Loyal and Questionable. A population amount in Population Units (each population unit = one army or fleet) will be given for each of these. Provinces you begin with, or claim, will be the most loyal. If you have more Questionable population than Fanatical or Loyal, a rebellion is likely to happen.
That's the only real affect of that number on the province itself - oh, and when you take over a province from another nation, the Loyal amount stay the same, but the Fanatical and Questionable populations flip. So if you've taken over a province from an enemy with a mostly Fanatical population, you're in for a rocky ride!
Now you may be wondering what the hell effect this has on gameplay. The number one will be that you can't build units in a province without available population (don't worry, they will increase naturally over time, and slowly regenerate over time after you have built units using them), and that you can choose which loyalty to take the unit from. So if you recruit from the Fanatical amount, your new unit will be Fanatical, which DOES have an effect on combat and the likelihood of your new unit running from battle to save its skin. However, a word of warning - if Questionable population units outnumber the Loyal and Fanatical ones, you should keep at least one Loyal or Fanatical Army in the province, as a rebellion is a possibility.
Fleets and armies require one population unit each to build.
Population cannot be moved from one province to another.
(6)******What does everyone think about the loyalty idea?*****
RAISING LOYALTY
You can spend 1 gold in a province per turn to make the Loyalty rise. This will cause either 2 Population Units to rise from Questionable to Loyal, or 1 Population Unit to rise from Loyal to Fanatical.
(7)*****Commets on this? I'm considering scrapping the Loyal to Fanatical jump, and making it that you can only earn Fanatical units by giving a province stability etc, and increasing the Questionable to Loyal cost to 1 Population Unit per 1 gold. This will rise naturally too, as stability brings happy populations, so should I not allow this buying of loyalty?
By the way, Loyal will be the most common loyalty, except in war-torn provinces which are often changing hands, where many will become Questionable (this may make the flipping when a province changes hands bit hard, ideas?)*****
UNITS AND COMBAT
Finally, down to the good stuff.
Armies and Fleets will cost 3 gold each to build.
Combat revolves around rolling a number on a D20, with Green units having to roll 5 or under to score a "strike" (see later), Regular having to roll 6 or under, Veteran 7 or under, and Elite 8 or under, after bonuses have been added on. As you can imagine, this makes experienced units very deadly, which is why they will be quite hard to gain.
(8)*****Are experienced units too strong?*****
Experience will be reflected by the unit's health (as in Civ3) and its roll amount as mentioned above. An elite unit can take 4 hits before it dies, a veteran one 3, a regular one (which built units will be) can take 2, and green units just 1. Moutainous terrain may produce veteran units automatically due to the harshness of life there (see the Terrain table under Economy), otherwise changes in a unit's experience will be due to a number of victories or defeats (you can move down experience levels too!). This will be quite a few due to the deadliness of experienced units, probably about 3 per level.
A unit will attempt to retreat once it is reduced to a single "strike", and yes, this does mean that green units aren't too reliable. Loyalty can affect this though - if you've told a fanatical unit to fight to the death, it will.
Damaged units will cost less gold to repair. I'm thinking if the army costs 3 gold to build, it'll cost 1 gold per "strike". Ie; an elite unit reduced to 1 strike would cost 3 gold to return to 4 strikes. This is the cost of a new unit, true, but your restored unit it Elite, which a new army wouldn't be.
(9)*****Does this combat system sound alright? Are the bonuses too large?*****
Terrain, as I mentioned earlier, will have a bonus effect for the defender's units if it is hilly, woody or mountainous. See the terrain chart above for details.
Fortifications will give +1, +2 and +3 bonuses to all the defender's units depending on their size (Small, Medium and Large).
Cannons, which cost 5 gold each, are an expensive but cool unit. One cannon unit can cancel out 1 Bonus point from either Fortifications or Terrain. So 3 cannon would cancel out the bonus from a large fortification. However, cannons cancel each other out (think hard to fire if being forced to keep your head down by opposing cannon), so 4 cannon would be required to completely cancel out a defender with no terrain bonuses, but a +3 fortification bonus and 1 cannon (ie; 4 v 4). If you have more cannon than the defender has bonuses and cannon, or vice versa, then for each extra cannon you get a +1 bonus up to a maximum of +5.
Cannons require no population units.
Cannon can be captured if left without armies to guard them, or if they are unable to retreat with retreating armies.
(10)*****Are cannons too strong, or too weak?*****
Cannon and armies move one province per turn, fleets one sea per turn.
Finally, on land, Fanatical units receive a +1 bonus, Loyal none, and Questionable units receive a -1 penalty.
Oh, and unit will most likely have a small upkeep per turn, and as for moving across water, rules are likely to be typical, haven't decided yet.
(11)*****Thoughts on upkeep and water rules?*****
STARTING POSITIONS
Players will most likely start in their capital province surrounded by vacant provinces, as per the old UKNESs (all the old maps have been deleted by CF, and I've got rid of mine, so map is gonna be a problem lol, gonna have to hunt one down!).
(12)*****Ideas on starting positions? Should it be a land grab as I think?
Finally...
Unit readouts for each province and an overall player breakdown would be PMed to the player at the end of each turn.
Any questions? Comments, views, opinions and ideas welcomed. Constructive criticism especially welcome.
UKNemesis
PS: Now been streamlined.
Now, this thread may end up taking more the role of a questionnaire lol, as I would love to hear people's views on the following subjects:
MAP
The old European UKNES map will be used for this, once I can find it again. Armies, Fleets, Fortifications and Cannon will all be shown on the map.
(1)*****If anyone knows where to get the old UKNES map, please reply! Thanks!*****
ERA
I have selected the Napoleonic era.
(2)*****Thoughts on this?*****
ECONOMY
Right, let's get down to business. Each province will give you a certain amount of income, set by the terrain which will be posted underneath the map on the front page. This has a flip-side, as those with fertile pastures are likely to be the hardest to defend (see Combat later on), however, they will also provide the biggest populations (see Population later on).
TERRAIN/STARTING POPULATION/GOLD INCOME/TERRAIN BONUSES
Fertile plains/5/5/-1 to Defender
Rolling hills/4/4/None
Hills/3/3/+1 to Defender
Forests/2/2/+2 to Defender
Mountains/1/1/+3 to Defender, units produced by population are Veteran
(3)*****Are these bonuses too strong?*****
Trade routes will bring in 1 gold per turn to each of the two countries involved, and cost 3 gold for each country to set up.
As for breaking trade routes, you get your original investment back, increasing the likelihood of a betrayal, and giving nations a cash boost option if they sacrifice their trade route. This is ONLY if one of the trading nations choose to break the trade route - NO money would be able to be got out of the trade route while it was being blocked by an enemy. Breaking a trade route would give you the 3 gold back the same turn, and would deny you the 1 gold from it that turn, but your opponent would still get the one gold from it that turn before having their 3 gold given back the next turn.
Trade routes must be over either your own provinces, the person you're trading with's, or allied or neutral provinces. They cannot go through enemy provinces or neutral ones that have declared an embargo against you. When going via sea provinces, they can only go through those with either your ships or your trading partner's ships in, or neutral or allied ships in. Any enemy ships or neutral ones blockading you, and the trade ships just won't go out, no matter what.
Fortifications cost 4 gold for a small fortification, which adds +1 bonus to all defenders, 7 gold for a medium fortification, which adds +2 bonus to all defenders, and finally 10 gold for a large fortification (or fort if your prefer) which adds +3 to all defenders.
(4)*****How do these trading and fort ideas sound? The trading one is designed to increase mistrust
*****EDUCATION, SCIENCE AND RESEARCH
I have decided to ignore this aspect of gameplay to streamline the game.
(5)*****For or against? Tell me.*****
POPULATION, LOYALTY AND CREATING UNITS
Now this is where this UKNES will get a little bit different. Each province will have an available fighting-age male population, Men (cheers to Gelion for this little gem).
This will be your population in that province that can be called to arms. They will be split into three loyalties - Fanatical, Loyal and Questionable. A population amount in Population Units (each population unit = one army or fleet) will be given for each of these. Provinces you begin with, or claim, will be the most loyal. If you have more Questionable population than Fanatical or Loyal, a rebellion is likely to happen.
That's the only real affect of that number on the province itself - oh, and when you take over a province from another nation, the Loyal amount stay the same, but the Fanatical and Questionable populations flip. So if you've taken over a province from an enemy with a mostly Fanatical population, you're in for a rocky ride!
Now you may be wondering what the hell effect this has on gameplay. The number one will be that you can't build units in a province without available population (don't worry, they will increase naturally over time, and slowly regenerate over time after you have built units using them), and that you can choose which loyalty to take the unit from. So if you recruit from the Fanatical amount, your new unit will be Fanatical, which DOES have an effect on combat and the likelihood of your new unit running from battle to save its skin. However, a word of warning - if Questionable population units outnumber the Loyal and Fanatical ones, you should keep at least one Loyal or Fanatical Army in the province, as a rebellion is a possibility.
Fleets and armies require one population unit each to build.
Population cannot be moved from one province to another.
(6)******What does everyone think about the loyalty idea?*****
RAISING LOYALTY
You can spend 1 gold in a province per turn to make the Loyalty rise. This will cause either 2 Population Units to rise from Questionable to Loyal, or 1 Population Unit to rise from Loyal to Fanatical.
(7)*****Commets on this? I'm considering scrapping the Loyal to Fanatical jump, and making it that you can only earn Fanatical units by giving a province stability etc, and increasing the Questionable to Loyal cost to 1 Population Unit per 1 gold. This will rise naturally too, as stability brings happy populations, so should I not allow this buying of loyalty?
By the way, Loyal will be the most common loyalty, except in war-torn provinces which are often changing hands, where many will become Questionable (this may make the flipping when a province changes hands bit hard, ideas?)*****
UNITS AND COMBAT
Finally, down to the good stuff.
Armies and Fleets will cost 3 gold each to build.
Combat revolves around rolling a number on a D20, with Green units having to roll 5 or under to score a "strike" (see later), Regular having to roll 6 or under, Veteran 7 or under, and Elite 8 or under, after bonuses have been added on. As you can imagine, this makes experienced units very deadly, which is why they will be quite hard to gain.
(8)*****Are experienced units too strong?*****
Experience will be reflected by the unit's health (as in Civ3) and its roll amount as mentioned above. An elite unit can take 4 hits before it dies, a veteran one 3, a regular one (which built units will be) can take 2, and green units just 1. Moutainous terrain may produce veteran units automatically due to the harshness of life there (see the Terrain table under Economy), otherwise changes in a unit's experience will be due to a number of victories or defeats (you can move down experience levels too!). This will be quite a few due to the deadliness of experienced units, probably about 3 per level.
A unit will attempt to retreat once it is reduced to a single "strike", and yes, this does mean that green units aren't too reliable. Loyalty can affect this though - if you've told a fanatical unit to fight to the death, it will.
Damaged units will cost less gold to repair. I'm thinking if the army costs 3 gold to build, it'll cost 1 gold per "strike". Ie; an elite unit reduced to 1 strike would cost 3 gold to return to 4 strikes. This is the cost of a new unit, true, but your restored unit it Elite, which a new army wouldn't be.
(9)*****Does this combat system sound alright? Are the bonuses too large?*****
Terrain, as I mentioned earlier, will have a bonus effect for the defender's units if it is hilly, woody or mountainous. See the terrain chart above for details.
Fortifications will give +1, +2 and +3 bonuses to all the defender's units depending on their size (Small, Medium and Large).
Cannons, which cost 5 gold each, are an expensive but cool unit. One cannon unit can cancel out 1 Bonus point from either Fortifications or Terrain. So 3 cannon would cancel out the bonus from a large fortification. However, cannons cancel each other out (think hard to fire if being forced to keep your head down by opposing cannon), so 4 cannon would be required to completely cancel out a defender with no terrain bonuses, but a +3 fortification bonus and 1 cannon (ie; 4 v 4). If you have more cannon than the defender has bonuses and cannon, or vice versa, then for each extra cannon you get a +1 bonus up to a maximum of +5.
Cannons require no population units.
Cannon can be captured if left without armies to guard them, or if they are unable to retreat with retreating armies.
(10)*****Are cannons too strong, or too weak?*****
Cannon and armies move one province per turn, fleets one sea per turn.
Finally, on land, Fanatical units receive a +1 bonus, Loyal none, and Questionable units receive a -1 penalty.
Oh, and unit will most likely have a small upkeep per turn, and as for moving across water, rules are likely to be typical, haven't decided yet.
(11)*****Thoughts on upkeep and water rules?*****
STARTING POSITIONS
Players will most likely start in their capital province surrounded by vacant provinces, as per the old UKNESs (all the old maps have been deleted by CF, and I've got rid of mine, so map is gonna be a problem lol, gonna have to hunt one down!).
(12)*****Ideas on starting positions? Should it be a land grab as I think?
Finally...
Unit readouts for each province and an overall player breakdown would be PMed to the player at the end of each turn.
Any questions? Comments, views, opinions and ideas welcomed. Constructive criticism especially welcome.
UKNemesis
PS: Now been streamlined.
. But I agree in principal to the betrayed party not getting his money back, but need to have some kind of balance, as this would make trading possiby too risky for most people.
