Disease System - Important for Mod Team to Review

Thunderbrd · Jul 28, 2012

I'm in the middle of setting up some elements for a disease system in the building tags and I figured, before I get too far, I'd explain what I was planning here and ask if there were any other team member projects in place that would conflict or if it would harmonize with what they've come up with so far.

I understand that there is a disease property in place but that it hasn't really been defined how it will work.

The way I see it, the Disease Property would be an inverse measure of cleanliness, hygene, public safety measures, and increased by unchecked unhealth.

Diseases themselves would work like buildings (like crime) with the exception that they do not automatically show up in cities when disease levels breach a certain point as crime buildings do.

Instead, they have a CHANCE to show up that begins to accumulate as disease levels pass a defined threshold. That chance (and the necessary threshold) is modified by other cities that may have that particular disease along trade routes, and by units on the city plot that have the disease themselves.

Units have a chance to catch the disease when in cities that have the disease, and have a chance to deliver the disease to other units on their stack and units they've entered combat with. Diseases are defined in this way as promotions that can be overcome and/or healed by healer units with a promotion that equips them to handle a particular disease. Healer units also have an ability to assist units in simply fighting off diseases by their mere presence in the same plot, a measurable ability I've dubbed 'Aid'.

Cities can overcome diseases if their Disease Level drops beneath the outbreak level of the disease by making a successful overcome check that is based on the same value necessary for units to overcome the disease.

I can get more specific about the values and how it all evaluates out, but before I commit to this method for cities, I wanted to make sure nobody else has anything in the works that this would conflict with.

Note that the Unit portion is already all set up. Specific diseases haven't been developed just the coding to enable it and the process of those diseases spreading and being overcome among units themselves.

This is one of the last things for me to program out in the dll before I do a merge with the latest svn version developments.

Hydromancerx · Jul 29, 2012

Ok a few things ...

1. We already had a topic on this.

2. I am waiting until after the freeze to set it all up.

3. Please hold off any plan until I have posted my diseases.

Thunderbrd · Jul 29, 2012

Couldn't find the topic by searching for 'disease' on any pages here so posted this.

I've decided I'm going to have to wait til after the freeze to merge anyhow.

I'm only setting up some potential dynamics. Apparently we need to really discuss HOW those dynamics would work in solid terms. I do not have any content planned, only methods. I think we need to discuss those methods you had in mind and do what we can to harmonize our ideas right away because I have some really innovative concepts as to how this can all work and am fairly confident we can come to agreement rather quickly, which allows me to proceed with confidence that I'm not wasting any of our times.

Hydromancerx · Jul 29, 2012

@Thunderbrd

1. The topic is here. I also posted other info in other topics which asked about it (too lazy to look them all up)

2. Well please wait since I need to set up the icon. They will work like the other properties in that all properties use the same art.

In short see how I set it up and then we can discuss tweaking, changing or adding on to it. Ok?

Originally it was DH's project but he said I could take it over since it was not doing what he wanted to do with it.

Thunderbrd · Jul 29, 2012

It would be extremely helpful if you could express, to me at least, what, exactly, you're doing to set up the diseases. And I think, beyond a shadow of a doubt, you'll want to know what I've already done for units in that regard and how it can tie into your plans. I believe this is extremely important for us to address immediately so that we both have the other's design ideas in mind. I don't believe anything I've done would not work into whatever you have in mind... its just very important that I understand what it is that you HAVE done so far.

Hydromancerx · Jul 29, 2012

Reposting the chat we had since it had some great ideas ...

Spoiler :

Hydromancerx · Jul 29, 2012

Part 2

Spoiler :

Thunderbrd · Jul 29, 2012

Ok, so color wise we also don't have Dark Green (right now its a mint green for the heroes and dark green would work well for DISEASE actually (not poisons so much)) and Dark Purple (right now the purple we have is almost magenta already... a rich royal purple with a dark hue would fit perfectly for poisons - again I'd like to differ in shape between having a poison you can deliver (earned from an equipment no doubt) and actually being poisoned.)

Otherwise, I think we have a concurrence and the rest of the necessary tags and coding to wrap up the dynamic of this system is being programmed as we speak.

AIAndy · Jul 29, 2012

Interesting. I was planning to get some dynamic into the disease property itself by having it grow inhibited by an immunity property (meaning temporary immunity because you already had that disease or were vaccinated or naturally immune) which then would grow the more people had the disease.

About the coding you do, Thunderbrd: Do you try to make it generic or tie it to the systems we already have to make those more powerful or is that very specific one purpose coding?

I have made a branch for that: /branches/disease
Use the Switch command to change your local copy to it and then you can commit any disease experiments.

Thunderbrd · Jul 29, 2012

AIAndy said:
Interesting. I was planning to get some dynamic into the disease property itself by having it grow inhibited by an immunity property (meaning temporary immunity because you already had that disease or were vaccinated or naturally immune) which then would grow the more people had the disease.

I'm not doing any programming that manipulates the generic Disease Property (which is pretty much a Disease Threat level that counts towards all diseases) directly but the Disease Property is certainly in use here. After the chat with Hydro last night, I planned some new tags for adjusting the Outbreak Value on a given disease by building or by tech etc... but you've just inspired another tag for a Disease Tolerance that grows each time the city contracts a particular disease by a cumulative bonus indicated by the tag value but reduces slowly over time gradually back down to 0 if another tag, bDiseaseToleranceErosion is true, otherwise builds up permanently. (Depends on the disease and how it works as to how that would go.) I'll do this for units as well.

About the coding you do, Thunderbrd: Do you try to make it generic or tie it to the systems we already have to make those more powerful or is that very specific one purpose coding?

I'm not quite sure what you're asking exactly but I'm trying to give all the necessary maneuverability to encapsulate real world effects into game effects. And as I've told Koshling before, any coding I do is subject to the both of you to review and if you find some things could be tweaked to make it function better or more efficiently, I'm always interested to see how you may have gone about things differently and open to making adjustments. I do try to make it fit into systems we have but I also figure you'll probably spot some places where some of your systems could be infused to make an improvement or two.

AIAndy · Jul 29, 2012

Thunderbrd said:
I'm not doing any programming that manipulates the generic Disease Property (which is pretty much a Disease Threat level that counts towards all diseases) directly but the Disease Property is certainly in use here. After the chat with Hydro last night, I planned some new tags for adjusting the Outbreak Value on a given disease by building or by tech etc... but you've just inspired another tag for a Disease Tolerance that grows each time the city contracts a particular disease by a cumulative bonus indicated by the tag value but reduces slowly over time gradually back down to 0 if another tag, bDiseaseToleranceErosion is true, otherwise builds up permanently. (Depends on the disease and how it works as to how that would go.) I'll do this for units as well.

I'm not quite sure what you're asking exactly but I'm trying to give all the necessary maneuverability to encapsulate real world effects into game effects. And as I've told Koshling before, any coding I do is subject to the both of you to review and if you find some things could be tweaked to make it function better or more efficiently, I'm always interested to see how you may have gone about things differently and open to making adjustments. I do try to make it fit into systems we have but I also figure you'll probably spot some places where some of your systems could be infused to make an improvement or two.

I have to admit that I love generic coding, even at points where it does not gain you a lot so I just wanted to ask you to think about if whatever you code is really only useful at this specific point or if other properties might later have similar needs.
Like for your cure mission, did you add that entirely separate or did you extend the outcome missions to allow curing if a tag is set?

Thunderbrd · Jul 29, 2012

AIAndy said:
I have to admit that I love generic coding, even at points where it does not gain you a lot so I just wanted to ask you to think about if whatever you code is really only useful at this specific point or if other properties might later have similar needs.
Like for your cure mission, did you add that entirely separate or did you extend the outcome missions to allow curing if a tag is set?

Let me preface all of the following with this: I believe you possess a genius to a degree that I cannot fathom without deep research and patience. Everything you do for the mod team is absolute gold. Unfortunately, I have difficulty following how to apply much of it in as wide a scope as you intended. I appreciate it all, but not as much now as I'm sure I will once I really 'get it'.

I have to work with what I understand, at least initially. I'm more than happy to let you look over what I've done and see if you can make some improvements with your generic applications. I don't really have my head around those yet so its best I steer clear of trying to use them until I understand them. And in the process of you making adjustments to what I've done it will make it a lot more graspable for me to see how you've adjusted things. Then, in future modding, I'll have a better functional understanding of those issues. I can struggle to understand the written explanations a great deal more than if I see it in action and it'll be easier to see it in action as it applies to what I've previously established myself.

For example, I'm not sure what outcome missions can really accomplish. So far I've seen that it allows us to manipulate the outcome of a battle regarding whether or not animals are captured. That's about my understanding of it right now. You could end up showing me how that could be somehow applied to curing, but the current way I established the Cure mission was more similar in nature to the manner in which Spy missions are established. (Note: I have some basic AI in place for that but I admit it could also be improved... its one of those flagged areas where I was going to confer with you guys to see what we could do to enhance it for the AI a bit. I'm finding I'm growing in the belief that Healers need their own AI routines entirely... they don't quite fit in with all that's taking place for RESERVE units.)

As it stands, I near completion of my project where the dll is concerned. It won't change or affect much until the content (xml and graphics) are developed to support it all. So, after some playtesting to make sure it isn't causing any unexpected issues in other areas, much of which takes place between each adjustment I make already, I should be able to safely merge it in and push it to the svn where you and Koshling can begin reviewing, even potentially tweaking, as content begins to undergo development.

I'm not really going to be able to make much use of the branch unless you want me to merge to the branch only for now, which could work too. But this segment I've been developing includes a LOT more than Afflictions. It also includes numerous combat interaction modifications, a host of new Promotion and Unit tags, and an Equipment system that works in tandem with the Affliction system as well.

AIAndy · Jul 29, 2012

Thunderbrd said:
I have to work with what I understand, at least initially. I'm more than happy to let you look over what I've done and see if you can make some improvements with your generic applications. I don't really have my head around those yet so its best I steer clear of trying to use them until I understand them. And in the process of you making adjustments to what I've done it will make it a lot more graspable for me to see how you've adjusted things. Then, in future modding, I'll have a better functional understanding of those issues. I can struggle to understand the written explanations a great deal more than if I see it in action and it'll be easier to see it in action as it applies to what I've previously established myself.

Sure, I am happy to help.

For example, I'm not sure what outcome missions can really accomplish. So far I've seen that it allows us to manipulate the outcome of a battle regarding whether or not animals are captured. That's about my understanding of it right now. You could end up showing me how that could be somehow applied to curing, but the current way I established the Cure mission was more similar in nature to the manner in which Spy missions are established. (Note: I have some basic AI in place for that but I admit it could also be improved... its one of those flagged areas where I was going to confer with you guys to see what we could do to enhance it for the AI a bit. I'm finding I'm growing in the belief that Healers need their own AI routines entirely... they don't quite fit in with all that's taking place for RESERVE units.)

Outcome lists are a list of different outcomes that have a certain chance to happen and then apply an effect (like creating a unit or adding food to the next town). There are conditions that are checked to see if an outcome is possible for a unit in the plot.
One application of outcome lists are the kill outcomes that are used for animal killing. The other application are outcome missions. That is what is used for the different things that can be done with subdued animals like butchering. You add a mission to the XML and then map that mission to an outcome list.
Example:

Spoiler :

As it stands, I near completion of my project where the dll is concerned. It won't change or affect much until the content (xml and graphics) are developed to support it all. So, after some playtesting to make sure it isn't causing any unexpected issues in other areas, much of which takes place between each adjustment I make already, I should be able to safely merge it in and push it to the svn where you and Koshling can begin reviewing, even potentially tweaking, as content begins to undergo development.

I'm not really going to be able to make much use of the branch unless you want me to merge to the branch only for now, which could work too. But this segment I've been developing includes a LOT more than Afflictions. It also includes numerous combat interaction modifications, a host of new Promotion and Unit tags, and an Equipment system that works in tandem with the Affliction system as well.

If you want to wait until the current version is released, then sure, you can commit it to trunk (otherwise the disease branch is kind of experimental anyway so might have some other stuff as well).

Thunderbrd · Jul 29, 2012

I'd have to ask how some of those results are then programmed to take place, but this isn't the thread for it. A FULL tutorial on how to establish missions in a way that uses these would be optimal. I worked through a tutorial on creating missions that certainly could've used some editing itself so I'm not 100% sure its going to work exactly as planned until some content gets in that allows me to test it effectively. Even following what you've explained, however, makes me wonder where I could apply that kind of thinking into the curing missions... perhaps you'll see a good way to use it there.

I'll at LEAST be waiting until after the current version release. In fact, I'll be quite happy if I can push changes right after the new version is posted. It'll probably take an extra week or two. The tags I have before me may be the last to implement but there's a lot to the whole formula now so it may take a bit to get it all down right.

Hydromancerx · Aug 2, 2012

I have added the following diseases ...

- Disease (Anthrax)
- Disease (Bird Flu)
- Disease (Common Cold)
- Disease (Dysentery)
- Disease (Scurvy)
- Disease (Swine Flu)

Note they are more like crimes than disease at the moment. They cannot spread yet and I would like to make them more unique too. Check them out and see what you think.

Thunderbrd · Aug 2, 2012

k... the request to reprogram the tags I've already made with a more efficient method is going to cost me a weekend or two to catch up to where I thought I was with this... but I'll look those over as soon as I do an update.

Disease System - Important for Mod Team to Review

Thunderbrd

C2C War Dog

Hydromancerx

C2C Modder

Thunderbrd

C2C War Dog

Hydromancerx

C2C Modder

Thunderbrd

C2C War Dog

Hydromancerx

C2C Modder

Hydromancerx

C2C Modder

Thunderbrd

C2C War Dog

AIAndy

Deity

Thunderbrd

C2C War Dog

AIAndy

Deity

Thunderbrd

C2C War Dog

AIAndy

Deity

Thunderbrd

C2C War Dog

Hydromancerx

C2C Modder

Thunderbrd

C2C War Dog

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