[R&F] Distribution of amenities from luxury

[stealth_nsk]

In the base game, amenities from luxuries are distributed automatically. As long as it affects only city happiness (which, in turn, mostly affects growth), that's ok. However, in R&F amenities also affect loyalty and their distribution becomes much more critical.

I can't finish my opinion on this.

On one hand, choice between making large core cities happy and small border cities loyal is interesting strategic choice. We need instruments to manage it.

On the other hand, manual luxury distribution would still be a micromanagement and, maybe, too exploitable in terms of loyalty.

Also, maybe players shouldn't have direct control over luxury distribution, but somehow set priority for them in cities, which the automatic distribution will try to follow?

 

[bbbt]

Personally, I'd like to see them go full 'trader/economic game' where you have to set up trade routes distributing your luxuries to cities (i.e. trade routes can do a circuit going to multiple cities or the like picking up and dropping off luxuries/resources), possible eventually leveraged with a corporation mechanic/economic victory. However, I like that sort of thing, that level of logistics would probably be anathema to a number of players.

I get what you are saying. It would be nice to dump a bunch of luxuries on a city that was having loyalty issues to keep them in the empire. Or send them to a city building a wonder/spaceport etc. to boost it's production during the time, etc. I think that could overall devalue luxuries though if it was too easy to min/max it..

I like the idea of setting priority - especially if leaving a city low priority for too long ends up creating additional, possible longer-lasting unhappiness (from resentment that they are being neglected).

Loyalty itself (outside of the amenities) looks like it will be able to be directly influenced in cities with different policy cards/unit and governor placement and the like.

 

[AriochIV]

The automatic (and largely opaque) allocation of amenities from luxury goods is one of my least favorite aspects of Civ VI. Adding Loyalty consequences to low amenities seems likely to make a bad system worse.

I don't see a straightforward way to manage amenities from luxuries that doesn't involve obscene amounts of micromanagement.

 

[Jaybe]

The automatic (and largely opaque) allocation of amenities from luxury goods is one of my most favorite aspects of Civ VI. Despite the lack of user input, it seems to do a superb job (at Prince difficulty), and provides no fodder for complainers of micromanagement. Adding Loyalty consequences to low amenities seems likely to make a good system better.

 

[AriochIV]

It works fine until it doesn't work, and at that point you don't have many options to remedy the situation except to "get more luxuries." Except that since the system is mostly opaque, I don't know which luxuries in what quantity will help which cities. The lack of proper UI to illustrate these details is a significant part of the problem.

Adding Loyalty consequences to low amenities seems likely to make a good system better.

How does adding city-losing penalties to a system you have essentially no control over make the system better?

 

[Mr Jon of Cheam]

The amenities system is pretty simple, I've never noticed it not 'working'. What do you mean by that?

Personally I wouldn't mind it if they gave players the option to re-allocate luxury resources but left it automatic as standard. The UI could be clearer but again, it's a simple system so I don't see the big issue.

 

[stealth_nsk]

The amenities system is pretty simple, I've never noticed it not 'working'. What do you mean by that?

It depends on what you consider working. The problem with amenities system is lack of more or less precise control. There's no way to distribute amenities into one city you wish to grow. Moreover, if you build entertainment district in a city you wish to make happy, the automatic luxury distribution system will move luxury amenities away from this city to help less happy ones! So not only it doesn't allow distributing them, but makes it harder to focus happiness through other system.

I'd say with loyalty system in place it becomes even worse, because amenities will have 2 parameters to optimize on (loyalty and growth), which is too much for automated system. Unless there are big changes and happiness doesn't affect growth anymore.

 

[Victoria]

amenities will have 2 parameters to optimize

It does not optimize, it evenly spreads which sort of makes sense.

I cannot talk for others but I tend to play and pretty much ignore amenities until I get red messages up. The difference between unhappy and happy is small. The difference between happy and ecstatic is big. And so I can pretty much ignore the beast and get a little warning message with plenty of warning before things get pear shaped/go south/go Pete Tong.

With Loyalty if its going to count for something at every + then its going to matter a lot in small cities and less in big cities if taken as a value rather than an effect on each citizen. If its going to effect each citizen big cities are going to be more of a problem than they already are (I do not think it works this second way) I have not really looked at the mechanic much as I am VV busy, can someone clarify?

 

[cvb]

The challenge & beauty of the amenities system is lack of absolute control. You can only indirectly distribute amenities into a city you wish to grow via the parameters food surplus & housing. I like it - even a godking has no absolute control over the birthrates of sheep & rats in his EMPIRE.

I'd say with loyalty system in place it becomes even worse, because amenities will have 2 parameters to optimize on (loyalty and growth)

Why? I see no need to change the existing distribution system. Loyalty may be the sheer dependent variable with respect to amenities & its distribution.
Loyalty depends also on other variables, which can be influenced.

 

[nzcamel]

Personally, I'd like to see them go full 'trader/economic game' where you have to set up trade routes distributing your luxuries to cities (i.e. trade routes can do a circuit going to multiple cities or the like picking up and dropping off luxuries/resources), possible eventually leveraged with a corporation mechanic/economic victory. However, I like that sort of thing, that level of logistics would probably be anathema to a number of players.

As a fan of the logistics in Colonization, I'd like to see something like that too. But then Civ VI likely has enough on it's plate, and like you I can't see them adding a heavier management layer.

 

[cvb]

"Pay no heed to the moneybags, Sire, as a fan of the logistics we need transport vessels first ... to bring our new weapons over the seas & hit them into the beating hearts of our enemies!"