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Distribution of resources in C3C is TOTALLY different (details)

Discussion in 'Civ3 - General Discussions' started by embryodead, Nov 21, 2003.

  1. embryodead

    embryodead Caliph

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    Most have already noticed that there are less strategic resources in C3C epic game than in Civ3/PTW. Well it's much more than that. The distribution pattern is totally different. BTW if you just want to know how to get PTW resource occurence in C3C, jump to the end of the post...
    If you're a modder, you might want to read the whole, since you will most likely have to change appearance ratios in your mod when converting it from PTW to C3C.

    For PTW:
    1). strategic resources: RATIO * #PLAYERS / 100, rounded down
    2). luxuries: random, from 50 to 100% of #PLAYERS (est.)
    unless there is ratio given, then the formula is the same as for 1).
    3). generator checks how much space is left (out of the approx. 4% of them map), divides that by the number of bonus resources, rounds that down and distibutes them, so there is the same amount of all.
    Note: map sizes and terrain features are irrelevant, unless you mess with extreme values (ie. 16x16 tiles maps etc.)

    BTW it is completly different from what help file says, but you can test for yourself that the help is wrong both for PTW and C3C stating that a ratio of 160 should give 16 resources in 8 player game :rolleyes: (it gives 12 in PTW and 9 in C3C).

    For C3C:
    The test shown was made on the unmodded PTW & C3C, standard map, 8 players, default world settings (age, land etc.), but the general idea is valid for any game, modded or not (I started testing in my mod, which has 39 resources). 10 maps were generated, C3MT was used to count resources. Other combinations were just checked to see if anything changes.



    Further experiments
    Keep in mind that none of the values are valid for a particular resources, since these can be modded at will. The values are rather valid for a given resource type. Why so much more Whales and Fish then? It seems that the more terrain of a given type (ie. sea), the more resources C3C will create. When I allowed Whales in plains, deserts etc., C3C generated less of them (no more than 18). Then, when I removed them from the sea, C3C generated less Whales than Game, Wheat etc.

    Unique resources
    Yes, it is now possible. The minimal number of strategic resources in PTW was 2, regardless of any settings. In C3C it has changed to 1, so you can finally make a truly unique resource.

    Summary
    1). C3C generates about 1/3 less strategic and luxury resources than PTW with the same settings. The minimal amount is 1.
    2). C3C generates much more bonus resources, evenly distributing on a given terrain type and with respect to the amount of that terrain on the map (which directly translates to much more resources in water than on the land). This is actually quite an improvement. PTW generated the same amount of all bonus resources, which was the cause of common "fish shortage" feeling in many mods ;)
    3). In C3C world shape/features affect the distribution of resources, unlike in PTW.

    I state that the new formula for resources with ratio set is:
    RATIO * #PLAYERS / 133, rounded down
    it seems valid for all tests I made for unmodded game as well as my mod, though it will vary slighly depending on the world shape/climate etc.

    If you want your PTW resources back...
    Just multiply all ratios by 1.33
    These are correct values for you: Iron & Horses: 212, Coal, Saltpeter, Oil, Rubber: 160, Uranium: 140
    This gives the PTW results in most cases. C3C tended to give 7 Uranium, instead of 8, so I raised it to 140.
    Not much can be done about luxuries - you will get 3 to 6 instead to 4 to 8. You can set ratio for them, but then, you lose randomness.
    You will get less bonus resource of course, like in PTW, though they will be still distributed in C3C "better" ie. more fishes/whales, less oasis etc. :)
     
  2. Catt

    Catt Emperor

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    :eek: I haven't gone through the whole post and haven't attempted to internalize all the work you've done, but :goodjob: It seemed clear that the resource distribution had changed (particularly apparent with luxuries) but I hadn't seen anyone try and decipher how, precisely, it had changed.

    Thanks for sharing your hard work!
     
  3. embryodead

    embryodead Caliph

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    np, I had to do it anyway because my mod was all messed up in terms of resource distribution after I converted it to C3C. I had to raise all ratios, then I also removed one coastal resource, since there were suddenly too much of them on random maps. Now it's annoying that I for example have very little sheeps. Poor sheeps :( . C3C doesn't put much resources on hills now.
     
  4. Little Raven

    Little Raven On Walkabout

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    Yeah, I got a nasty shock when for my first game, I went and modded the values to where I used to have them in vanilla Civ III. (very low values, since I like resource-scarce games)

    I realized something was wrong when one civ had iron, and nobody had saltpeter.....

    Someday, I'm going to finish playing that game just to see if there was any uranium on the map at all. :crazyeye:
     
  5. mrtn

    mrtn Shaven not stirred

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    Good work embryodead! :thumbsup:
    What do you think of putting sheep in the mountains too? I don't remember where you have them now, but you could have sheep in desert and plains too.
     
  6. anarres

    anarres anarchist revolutionary

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    Excellent! Thanks! :)
     
  7. embryodead

    embryodead Caliph

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    sheep on plains - no reason, there is cattle. I'll see how do they look when put on mountains though. Desert is sort of desolate in wh-mod (no cities allowed).
     
  8. Mongoloid Cow

    Mongoloid Cow Great Khan

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    Thanks for going through this embryodead :thumbsup:
     
  9. kring

    kring Asst Cook & Bottle Washer

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    Thank you for the information and hard work that you saved me. :)
     
  10. The Last Conformist

    The Last Conformist Irresistibly Attractive

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    Dare I guess there's no mention whatsoever of this rather important change in the documentation?

    Good job, Embryodead! :goodjob:
     
  11. Yoda Power

    Yoda Power ✫✫✫✫✫✫✫

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  12. statusperfect

    statusperfect Warlord

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    Sheep should of course be on hills - like Scotland :D
     
  13. Colonel Kraken

    Colonel Kraken Deity

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    Wow, thanks for the great work, Embryo. This is a must read for us modders. :goodjob:

    --CK
     
  14. Nfinity

    Nfinity Chieftain

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    Ok this is a thing i have been searching for ever since conquest came out and real great work on finding this out but where do i change these values??
     
  15. Yoda Power

    Yoda Power ✫✫✫✫✫✫✫

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    Nfinity-in the Natural Resources tab in the editor.
     
  16. embryodead

    embryodead Caliph

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    @Nfinity
    Open C3CEditor
    Choose "Rules -> Edit Rules" then "Natural Resources Tab"
    Scroll through the resources to find the ones to change and
    simply enter new Appearance Ratio in the box.
    You may save this as your "conquests.biq", so it affects your usual epic games, but remember to backup the file first, it's always a good idea. Alternatively save it as a mod.
     
  17. Nfinity

    Nfinity Chieftain

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    Thx guys its working :)
     
  18. vbraun

    vbraun Raytracing

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    :thanx:
     
  19. statusperfect

    statusperfect Warlord

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    Nobody like the new resource system?? I DO!! :D
     
  20. meelek

    meelek Chieftain

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    While it may well ruin the randomness of the generation of luxuries, does anyone have any idea as to an approximate ratio value that would be needed in order to return the number of luxuries generated back to their PTW values?
     

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