District Costs

[Leyrann]

Maybe districts needed for discount is a flat number plus a number per era?

I could see them doing that to balance later era starts.

 

[kaspergm]

Maybe districts needed for discount is a flat number plus a number per era?

I could see them doing that to balance later era starts.

That can well be. You certainly seem to be getting districts cheaper in your first cities when playing later game starts, although I can't tell if it's scripted or caused by this.

 

[c4c6]

@Victoria: can you please include again nonzero values of UNcompleted districts? (In turn 23 the discount is turned off, triggered by tech #8, but uncertain based on what else ... "Discounts are turned OFF based on completed+uncompleted districts and triggered by the completion of techs ...")

Preliminary draft
(The effective cost is calculated & locked in upon PLACING DOWN a district, 67 Techs & 51 Civics in game, rounding down)
District cost = 60* (1 + 9*[ 100*Larger of{ Number of Techs/67 OR Number of Civics/51 } ]/100)
- Aqueduct 50, max 500
- normal districts max 600
- district types rarely used max 450 (@25% discount)
Aerodrome, Aqueduct, Neighborhood and Spaceport don't receive discounts ("diversity of your districts" not applicable, because victory type respectively map specific or just style of play). So Campus, Commercial Hub, Encampment, Entertainment Complex, Harbor, Holy Site, Industrial Zone & Theater Square can receive the 25% discount. TBD "less than average" is not calculated by adding all districts of this types _you_ have together and then divide by 8 - but ... has something to do with median & voodoo?!

To avoid, that if you have just one district all other would be at reduced price, at least 3 districts are needed to get discounts.
Discounts are turned ON based on completed districts and triggered by the completion of techs / civics or finishing districts.
Discounts are turned OFF based on completed+uncompleted districts and triggered by the completion of techs / civics or placing districts.

 

[Lily_Lancer]

@Victoria: can you please include again nonzero values of UNcompleted districts? (In turn 23 the discount is turned off, triggered by tech #8, but uncertain based on what else ... "Discounts are turned OFF based on completed+uncompleted districts and triggered by the completion of techs ...")

Preliminary draft
(The effective cost is calculated & locked in upon PLACING DOWN a district, 67 Techs & 51 Civics in game, rounding down)
District cost = 60* (1 + 9*[ 100*Larger of{ Number of Techs/67 OR Number of Civics/51 } ]/100)
- Aqueduct 50, max 500
- normal districts max 600
- district types rarely used max 450 (@25% discount)
Aerodrome, Aqueduct, Neighborhood and Spaceport don't receive discounts ("diversity of your districts" not applicable, because victory type respectively map specific or just style of play). So Campus, Commercial Hub, Encampment, Entertainment Complex, Harbor, Holy Site, Industrial Zone & Theater Square can receive the 25% discount. TBD "less than average" is not calculated by adding all districts of this types _you_ have together and then divide by 8 - but ... has something to do with median & voodoo?!

To avoid, that if you have just one district all other would be at reduced price, at least 3 districts are needed to get discounts.
Discounts are turned ON based on completed districts and triggered by the completion of techs / civics or finishing districts.
Discounts are turned OFF based on completed+uncompleted districts and triggered by the completion of techs / civics or placing districts.

Aerodromes do receive discounts.
You're right. The number of district needed for discounts may only be updated after you finish a tech or civ.
Try finish a tech and civ using pillage/eureka in turn, and see whether the discount status is updated.

 

[c4c6]

Aerodromes do receive discounts.

Then the column "Average of all" should be calculated by a division with 9 instead of 8?!

 

[Victoria]

can you please include again nonzero values of UNcompleted districts?

Yeah sure, I turned them off so I could get the spreadsheet to do more, easily.
For #83 fro turn 18 onward the was a holy site I had accidentally started and because it was late I just frigged the discount for holy sites. That was the only thing placed rather than finished. Also at turn 37 I gave myself a tech from firetuner as it was 2am and I had run out of 1 turn techs... Inhad also given myself a few to start as the settler can be bought 1/turn with jungle chopping.
It does seem the firetuner tech place is working fine which allows some acceleration, just city and district placements go odd.

 

[Lily_Lancer]

Then the column "Average of all" should be calculated by a division with 9 instead of 8?!

I think so. I just wonder if it is the median or the average.

 

[Victoria]

Aerodromes do receive discounts.

Well this is an interesting area hence in post #83 I have made it clear which districts I cannot build.
The reason being I got a discount at 3 districts but could only build 3 types.
Some testing indicates there may be an 8 floating around before aerodromes are created.

@c4c6 the start of your draft does place too much emphasis on placing down which only effects when a discount ends and has nothing to do with the district cost formula mentioned. I know it's important for when it ends, just seems odd in caps there

(The effective cost is calculated & locked in upon PLACING DOWN a district, 67 Techs & 51 Civics in game, rounding down)
District cost = 60* (1 + 9*[ 100*Larger of{ Number of Techs/67 OR Number of Civics/51 } ]/100)

 

[Lily_Lancer]

Well this is an interesting area hence in post #83 I have made it clear which districts I cannot build.
The reason being I got a discount at 3 districts but could only build 3 types.
Some testing indicates there may be an 8 floating around before aerodromes are created.

So the average/median is based on the number of districts you can built?
What if I get a district by capture that I can't even built ?

 

[Victoria]

So the average/median is based on the number of districts you can built?

I have no idea, in essence we need lots of test data, it's just during the day I cannot get near the PC for whining teenagers

 

[WillowBrook]

I have no idea, in essence we need lots of test data, it's just during the day I cannot get near the PC for whining teenagers

Thanks for all your work testing this, Victoria and friends! I've been following, but can't help at the moment.

(I just got back to playing last night after real life kept me away for two weeks, and my time is quite limited in the near term (fueled in part by (sometimes whining) toddlers)).

 

[Photi]

i have been rearranging the numbers, one arrangement is calculating the average based on districts that can be built on that turn (rather than total potential discounted districts throughout game), and sometimes an average of 1 shows a discount (eg, T21,T36) and other times an average of 1 does not give the discount (T20, 23, 37, 38).

On turns 20 and 21, the only difference in the provided data is that on T20 a district was completed. From that point to the next turn no change occurs except on T21 the discount is given but not on T20. This suggests that the discount is determined prior to city build completions for that turn.

However, comparing that to turns 23 and 24, the exact opposite is suggested, where on turn 24 the completion of a district is accompanied by the addition of the discount, with no other changes (in provided data).

Why is there no discount on T20 but a discount on T24? The same change occurs, and yet the effect is different.

The inconsistency of the data means there are other variables at play. Possibilities are number of cities settled and number of districts started but not completed. Maybe there is still some global parameter being factored in.

 

[Lily_Lancer]

I have no idea, in essence we need lots of test data, it's just during the day I cannot get near the PC for whining teenagers

I'm thinking the division may be based on how many districts one of all civs can build.

Could you provide the tech pace of all Civs at those turns?

 

[Photi]

@Victoria you said completion of currency on turn 22 instead of 23 would take away the discount (along with not completing the district). but since it was a tech which added a district, it could very well be the addition of a possible district is what changed the discount factor, not "tech" per se.

edit: or in post #81 a civic (games and rec) was added, in post 83 a tech (currency) was added. in either case a tech/civic which adds a potential district.

second edit: it looks like in both posts it was currency? in one entertainment district is added to potential, in the other commercial district is added but in both in the tech/civics column only tech increased, so a typo.

 

[Victoria]

Could you provide the tech pace of all Civs at those turns?

While it is possible, the slowdown each turn would be phenomenal. As it is I often replay a turn just to make sure I am gathering all the stats and I worry that this puts some of the stats out of line.
I managed 30 mins on the PC just now and got firetuner to work OK for buildingbcities and placing districts but the trouble is as @Photi says... it's about turn sequencing. This can skew data by a turn
@Photi, the thing that changes is the number of techs discovered in that turn to make a difference

I think I may just have to play turn through as per a normal game to get accuracy and also relevance

I am going to use Germany on a large map at prince with just one opposition civ and 8 CS. It seems more controllable that way.

 

[Photi]

Turns 23 and 36 are similar in that they are turns where the turn prior had a discount and where a tech added a new possible district which then brought the average districts for those turns to one.* And yet in T23 the discount is removed, on T36 it remains. (other difference is that a civic was also added on T36)

*avg calculated on potential districts for that turn

I am going to use Germany on a large map at prince with just one opposition civ and 8 CS. It seems more controllable that way.

seems like exclusion of CS would make it even less confounding

 

[c4c6]

What if I get a district by capture that I can't even built ?

I'd say: you got it, so it is a district you "completed" and you "can build".

The inconsistency of the data means there are other variables at play. Possibilities are number of cities settled and number of districts started but not completed. Maybe there is still some global parameter being factored in.

Number of civs, map size, game speed ...


Preliminary draft
The effective cost is calculated & LOCKED IN upon placing down a district, even if the production is changed immediately and many other things are actually built before the district on purpose.
(67 Techs & 51 Civics in game, rounding down)
District cost = 60* (1 + 9*[ 100*Larger of{ Number of Techs/67 OR Number of Civics/51 } ]/100)
- Aqueduct 50, max 500
- normal districts max 600
- district types rarely used max 450 (@25% discount)
Aqueduct, Neighborhood and Spaceport don't receive discounts ("diversity of your districts" not applicable, because victory type respectively map specific or just style of play). So Aerodrome, Campus, Commercial Hub, Encampment, Entertainment Complex, Harbor, Holy Site, Industrial Zone & Theater Square can receive the 25% discount.
TBD "less than average" is _not_ calculated by adding all districts of this types _you_ have together and then dividing by 8 (9 after aerodromes are available) - but ... has something to do with median & voodoo?!

To avoid, that if you have just one district all other would be at reduced price, at least 3 districts are needed to get discounts.
Discounts are turned ON based on completed districts and triggered by the completion of techs / civics or finishing districts.
Discounts are turned OFF based on completed+uncompleted districts and triggered by the completion of techs / civics or placing districts.

 

[Lily_Lancer]

I'd say: you got it, so it is a district you "completed" and you "can build".

Number of civs, map size, game speed ...


Preliminary draft
The effective cost is calculated & LOCKED IN upon placing down a district, even if the production is changed immediately and many other things are actually built before the district on purpose.
(67 Techs & 51 Civics in game, rounding down)
District cost = 60* (1 + 9*[ 100*Larger of{ Number of Techs/67 OR Number of Civics/51 } ]/100)
- Aqueduct 50, max 500
- normal districts max 600
- district types rarely used max 450 (@25% discount)
Aqueduct, Neighborhood and Spaceport don't receive discounts ("diversity of your districts" not applicable, because victory type respectively map specific or just style of play). So Aerodrome, Campus, Commercial Hub, Encampment, Entertainment Complex, Harbor, Holy Site, Industrial Zone & Theater Square can receive the 25% discount.
TBD "less than average" is _not_ calculated by adding all districts of this types _you_ have together and then dividing by 8 (9 after aerodromes are available) - but ... has something to do with median & voodoo?!

To avoid, that if you have just one district all other would be at reduced price, at least 3 districts are needed to get discounts.
Discounts are turned ON based on completed districts and triggered by the completion of techs / civics or finishing districts.
Discounts are turned OFF based on completed+uncompleted districts and triggered by the completion of techs / civics or placing districts.

I mean, maybe the median/average is based on the type of districts any player can build.( i.e. you don't have Currency but an Ai has, then CHs count.)

Another question, is that a median or an average?

 

[Photi]

To avoid, that if you have just one district all other would be at reduced price, at least 3 districts are needed to get discounts.

is there certainty on this one? are you sure if just holy site and campus available, and 3 holy sites are built before any campuses, that the first campus will not be discounted? (assuming no bronze working, no currency, no games and rec etc)

edit: nevermind, for some reason i read "3 different districts" not "3 districts" so we are on the same page with that

I mean, maybe the median/average is based on the type of districts any player can build.( i.e. you don't have Currency but an Ai has, then CHs count.)

if this is true, that could certainly make the data more consistent, where an average of 1 or more districts would allow for a discount for district types that are equal to or below the average

 

[c4c6]

I mean, maybe the median/average is based on the type of districts any player can build.( i.e. you don't have Currency but an Ai has, then CHs count.)

Possible. It enlarges the randomness, so I think, in this case this is not wished by design.

Another question, is that a median or an average?

The average based on total potential discounted own districts throughout the game is falsified - average based on just the districts that can be built on that turn is open ... probably not the pure median (5th) ... methinks the average of the 4th & 6th ranked slots out of 9 potential discounted districts would be cute

(for calculating this beast it would help to have bigger numbers as in 0-0-0-0-6-6-6-6, because then fluctuations are less significant)